paperhanging-digest Monday, September 22 1997 Volume 01 : Number 001
In this issue:
PList Test post ignore please [gail cox <wallpro@paperhanging.com>]
PHLIST\: test message #2 [gail cox <wallpro@paperhanging.com>]
PHLIST: Test Message 3 [gail cox <wallpro@paperhanging.com>]
PHLIST: Paperhanging Mail Please READ!!!! [gail cox <wallpro@paperhanging]
PHLIST: Third time posting is the charm!!! [gail cox <wallpro@paperhangin]
PHLIST: From Walldude about the cp exam [gail cox <wallpro@paperhanging.c]
PHLIST: URLs [morron@ns.vvm.com]
PHLIST: IRC chat [morron@ns.vvm.com]
Re: PHLIST: URLs [WALLDUDE@aol.com]
Re: PHLIST: Third time posting is the charm!!! [WALLDUDE@aol.com]
Re: PHLIST: URLs [morron@ns.vvm.com]
PHLIST: Wisdom from Walldude [gail cox <wallpro@paperhanging.com>]
PHLIST: CP Message from Lisafxwg@aol.com [gail cox <wallpro@paperhanging.]
PHLIST: David's 1st email REPOST [gail cox <wallpro@paperhanging.com>]
PHLIST: from Debby Athearn with a question... [gail cox <wallpro@paperhan]
PHLIST: from Lisafxwg@aol.com [gail cox <wallpro@paperhanging.com>]
PHLIST: David Veith on CP [gail cox <wallpro@paperhanging.com>]
PHLIST: David on Scrambled Messages [gail cox <wallpro@paperhanging.com>]
PHLIST: From jparodi@warwick.net [gail cox <wallpro@paperhanging.com>]
Re: PHLIST: Wisdom from Walldude [DGreene431@aol.com]
Re: PHLIST: from Debby Athearn with a question... [Tapezierer@aol.com]
PHLIST: NGPP website [morron@ns.vvm.com]
----------------------------------------------------------------- -----
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 97 13:43:02 -0400
From: gail cox <wallpro@paperhanging.com>
Subject: PList Test post ignore please
test post...
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 97 14:19:58 -0400
From: gail cox <wallpro@paperhanging.com>
Subject: PHLIST\: test message #2
ignore
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 97 14:23:08 -0400
From: gail cox <wallpro@paperhanging.com>
Subject: PHLIST: Test Message 3
test message ignore
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 97 17:38:27 -0400
From: gail cox <wallpro@paperhanging.com>
Subject: PHLIST: Paperhanging Mail Please READ!!!!
The only thing I can do is apologize and beg forgiveness. The provider
that I was using to get the list up and running was the pits. Awful.
Horrible. Terrible. Posts that were slaughtered...some were never
added...digests that produced everytime someone made a post... For your
sakes I hated it. I was paying and receiving none to awful service.
So I FIRED THEM.
We now have a new provider and a provider with a system that works. I
tested it all weekend to make certain. I have moved our subscription
list. THEREFORE you have a new address to send any posts that you want
to make. The new address is:
paperhanging@MyList.net
Your list is no longer moderated. I decided that was more interference
than was necessary...so your posts will now go DIRECTLY to the whole list.
I have a pile of posts to send out that have arrived since Friday so you
will get a great deal of posts all at one time and for that I again
apologize.
Thanks for *sticking* with us through these latest troubles. Hopefully
everything will now work like it should of from the beginning.
The following is what is posted and send to every new subscriber on
our/your paperhanging list. Please read it over so you understand how
everything works...
******To say hello and give you some stuff you need to know*******
My name is Gail Cox and I want to welcome you to The American School of
Paperhanging Arts (ASPA) and the Paperhanging email list. The purpose of
this list is to give professionals in the wallcovering field a place to
exchange information with each other. We don't limit subscriptions to
just wallcovering installers but we are hoping that all types of
wallcovering professionals (store owners, manufacturers, designers, etc)
will join our group!
Here are just a few of the sticky details you need in order to
participate!
The most important detail is that ANY post you make to the list goes to
EVERYONE on the list. So if you choose to be disagreeable (which is
totally different from disagreeing) everyone who is on the paperhanging
list will see your lack of manners and judge you accordingly. So the
very first rule is this: POST UNTO OTHERS IN THE SAME TONE YOU WOULD LIKE MAIL
SENT UNTO YOU!
Whew...now that the number one rule is stuck on the wall here are some of
the things you need to join in the action:
1. To send a message you send it (just like regular email) to this
address:
paperhanging@MyList.net
Your email will then automatically go to everyone else on the list... (We
paid extra dollars to get an address that was easy for you to remember so
please use it!)
2. If the list gets active (lots of emails going back and forth daily)
you might want to subscribe to the digest form of the list. In the
digest form you will get all the postings for one day on the list in ONE
email. The advantage of the digest form of the list is that you don't
get a lot of mail cluttering up your box. The disadvantage is that it is
a little more difficult to reply to an individual posting. If you do
want to change to the digest please write me directly
(wallpro@paperhanging.com) and I'll move you to the digest or vice/versa.
3. If you decide to quit the list write and tell me so
(wallpro@paperhanging.com) and I'll tear up your subscription blank and
you'll hear not another word from us. But before you do take that
drastic measure THINK about the collective wisdom and/or folly that you
will be missing....
4. Every posting that will come to you from the paperhanging list will
have: PLIST: before the subject title so you will know from whence it
cometh...
5. Manufacturers are welcome to post information about their products on
this list. They must know however IF they do the members of the list
will be likely to comment on those products. So save the hype. We are
professionals here and we recognize hype when we read it ... information
is good.... hype is ...well... hype... and it is like unto mildew on the
brain...it stinketh. For manufacturers it is important that you
recognize the Walldude's three rules of paperhanging which anyone who has
ever hung wallcovering for a living knows and which surely address the
issue of hype:
Clear adhesive .......isn't
Universal primers.......aren't
Non staining adhesives ............do
6. We don't want to limit in any fashion any types of posts. Jokes are
fine. In fact, any subject on earth (or above) is fine as long as it is
something you would tell a member of the opposite sex or different
race/religion who you just were introduced to for the first time. We
believe that it is absolutely impossible to be completely political
correct so we just expect people to just be completely human and
understand there are other humans not unlike themselves reading/writing
in the list...
7. Finally....On being booted out: On the theory that *one lousy apple
can spoil the whole barrel* The American School of Paperhanging Arts
reserves the right to cancel any subscription of any person who is NOT
NICE. We can do that because we foot the bill for the list and we only
want emails from NICE PEOPLE. Nice people do not always agree with us
and may not always like us but they are always NICE in their disagreement
or hatred. Translated: That means absolutely and positively NO FLAMES.
If you want to get nasty with each other take it to private email. On
this list disagreements abound but so does civility.
There is no subject that is taboo in the list. However, The American
School of Paperhanging Arts will not tolerate JUNK MAIL. We all know
what junk mail is and we can all recognize the smell when we passes our
noses. If you post junk mail (SPAM) your subscription will be
immediately cancelled and you won't be allowed further participation.
Ever. At least not in this lifetime.
Any questions or comments can be addressed to me personally. You can get
to me through my email address (wallpro@paperhanging.com) or you can just
go to our site
http://www.paperhanging.com
and while visiting you will find a way to reach me there.
Thanks again for joining The American School of Paperhanging Arts
paperhanging mailing list.... Please join in and tell us what you
think...we will all be better for it!
gail cox
Please visit our site at
http://www.paperhanging.com
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 97 18:29:13 -0400
From: gail cox <wallpro@paperhanging.com>
Subject: PHLIST: Third time posting is the charm!!!
From: Gtm@aol.com
Gail, I know that the CP thing is a little troubling for some folks...
.however I have never wanted to apply for it. Let me start by saying that
it is not because I fear the test or can't pass it. My educational
qualifications are as follows, three and one half years at Georgia Tech
where I was taking classes to graduate with three majors: Chemical
Engineering, Ceramic Engineering, and Geophysics.
I did not finish because of a Mr.Fidel Castro who took everything I had
in 1959. I think I could pass the CP test with the education and my 31
years of experience as a paperhanger.
I enjoy what I do everyday, it is a great feeling to be free to work as
you want, for whom you want, and for the amount of money that you decide
to charge for your services. We are indeed the luckiest people because we
can take a day off and still loose no money by moving the schedule
forward.
I have met some wonderful people in my two years as a member of the Guild
and of the Atlanta chapter. The amount of knowledge of our NGPP is
astounding .
The greatest thing is that if you have a problem there will be somebody
that will help you. No "professional secrets", just a lot of folks
wanting to share their knowledge to help anybody that asks. I have a lot
of respect for my fellow members and I think the discontent over the the
CP issue is not such a big deal .
I was going to reply to the letter, but time is scarce right now because
of the amount of work.
One more thing before I close, I think that those who oppose our
relations with the manufacturers and suppliers are way off base. We are
all in this game, and I have to tell you that I have received nothing but
cooperation from the associate members of our chapter. If we are to
salvage the decline of market share in the wallpaper business it's going
to take a combined effort to reverse it.
BTW I graduated from New York Military Academy in Cornwall-on- Hudson, NY
where the writer of the letter lives. I know the place well.
Gerard Jansen
Gtm@aol.com
- ----------------- End Forwarded Message -----------------
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 97 18:39:50 -0400
From: gail cox <wallpro@paperhanging.com>
Subject: PHLIST: From Walldude about the cp exam
When the CP program was announced in 1989, it seemed to me that the
whole concept was absurd.. Our craft involves a very specialized,
exacting skill, requiring a temperament that is not widespread. How can
an ability, that demands such a tall degree of aptitude, proficiency,
adeptness, dexterity and a respectable amount of craft and product
knowledge, possibly be quantified with the results of a 4 hour written
exam. Successful certification candidates would be entitled to display
the coveted CP designation after their names.
Hmmmmmm. my doctor went to school for 12 years, and worked a bunch of 36
hour shifts so that he could place two letters behind his name. My
accountant went through six years of school and worked in the trenches
for years, furthering his education and constantly certifying and
updating his abilities so that he could place two different letters
behind his name. Paperhangers take a four hour test?
What monumental arrogance was this? What a hype ! But hey, I thought
..............its marketing........it sounds good .......it ll give us an
edge against our competition.
It was then farther announced that the candidates work would examined by
way of site inspections and a hands on evaluation. Well.............maybe
I thought, but the logistics of administering such a program would be
astronomically complex.
I began to hear other paperhangers chatter on about how excited they were
about this program, and how it would change their lives and give them
credibility. I was rather vocal about the absurdity of the whole idea.
As the San Francisco convention in 1990 neared, I thought, What the
hell, and called the national office and told them I wanted to be
certified. A week later I sat down and began the exam. It was
excruciating!
Elation, uncertainty, hopelessness, depression, certainty, gloom and
misery. There was not an emotion I did not experience in that four hours.
I left the room unsure whether I had aced the test or washed out totally.
The creator of the program and the exam was David Groff, whose book The
Complete Guide to Wallpapering was the study guide and the source for the
exam material.
Now I know David, and know that he speaks very good English, but it is a
curious form of Carolina English that is easy and charming to follow in
conversation, and painfully distressing to read on an exam. It was not
enough to know the material. One also needed to be a skilled unraveler of
complex word puzzles that were designed to confuse and trip the examanee
so that the exam would not seem to be a cake walk.
Tha next day, David told me I had scored 97%, the highest score ever.
(that score has been bested since then) I was now a CP.....whoopie !
Soon after that, someone had come to the same conclusion as I did and it
was announced that the price of certification would be cut in half to
$175, and that the hands on, and the site inspection portions of the
program had been eliminated, and that the exam would be the sole
determining factor in the whole certification process.
So again I ask. How do you rate the skill level in a craft as complex as
ours, with a four hour written exam?
It should be noted that anyone who reads the aforementioned book will be
able to take and pass this exam without ever having installed a strip of
wallpaper.
So here I sit, a certified paperhanger, slightly embarassed by the whole
phenomenon. There are some that are impressed with certification of any
kind, and that CP is for them. So lets use it to beguile our clients and
impress them with our occupational prowess, but lets not delude each
other.
Michael Keith ................CP
Walldude@aol.com
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 17:07:15 +0000
From: morron@ns.vvm.com
Subject: PHLIST: URLs
The following is a list of URLs for the paperhanger
internet-surfer-junkie:
Website URL
C&M Interiors (mine) http://www.vvm.com/~morron/
Renovations On-Line http://199.202.201.123/reno/
This Old House http://pathfinder.com/@@IWhTOgQA7hQsdU2L/TOH/
Home Improvement/Repair http://www.hometime.com/
DWCdesigNET http://www.dwcdesignet.com/index.html
HouseNet http://www.housenet.com/
Virtual Paintstore (PWC) http://www.paintstore.com:80/index.html
USAPainter http://www.usapainter.com/
Sinopia Pigment http://www.sfo.com/~sinopia/
Home Ideas! http://www.homeideas.com/welcome.html
J. R. Burrows http://www.burrows.com/index/html
GenCorp http://rw.gencorp.com/
GenCorp Commercial http://cw.gencorp.com/
Essex http://cw.gencorp.com/essex.htm
M. A. Baskind http://www.ibp.com/pit/baskind/rainbow.html
F. Schumacher http://www.fsco.com/
Imperial http://www.imp-wall.com/
Canada Wallcoverings http://www.inforamp.net/%7Ecanwall/index.htm
Erismann http://www.erismann.de
Harlequin Fabrics &
Wallcoverings Ltd. http://www.harlequin.uk.com
Marburger Tapetenfabrik http://martap.de/
S. A. Maxwell Co. http://www.samaxwell.com/
Sachs Design International http://members.aol.com/SachsDsign/welcome.htm
Union Roto-Engraving Inc. http://urginc.com/
Wallquest, Inc. http://wallquest.com/
Warner Wallcoverings http://TheWarnerCo.com/
Innovations in Wallcoverings, Inc. http://www.innovationsusa.com
Yangki, by Sondra Alexander http://designwave.com/homes/yangki/
Wm Zinsser & Co. http://www.zinsser.com/
ASID http://www.Asid.org/main.htm
PDCA http://www.pdca.com/
NDPA http://www.hygexpo.com/ndpa/
PDRA http://www.pdra.org/
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 17:07:16 +0000
From: morron@ns.vvm.com
Subject: PHLIST: IRC chat
For a good time, get on IRC (Internet Relay Chat) on Sunday
nights, 9pm CDT on DALnet. We have a live chat for paperhangers. The
channelname is #NGPPchat. You don't have to be a C.P. to join the
discussion <g>. In fact, you don't even need to be currently in the
trade (although I can't think of anyone who would receive this who
ain't)... all you need is an interest in the paperhanging arts, some
time and an irc client.
See you there!
Clyde Morron (C.P.)
morron@vvm.com
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 19:40:55 -0400 (EDT)
From: WALLDUDE@aol.com
Subject: Re: PHLIST: URLs
In deference to Mr. DiGilio, I think it may be appropriate to include
http://www.ngpp.org
to the preceding list of URLs
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 19:41:29 -0400 (EDT)
From: WALLDUDE@aol.com
Subject: Re: PHLIST: Third time posting is the charm!!!
We heard you Gerard
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 18:20:18 +0000
From: morron@ns.vvm.com
Subject: Re: PHLIST: URLs
> In deference to Mr. DiGilio, I think it may be appropriate to include
> http://www.ngpp.org to the preceding list of URLs
Oops... you're right, Michael!
BTW, you can drop the 'www'.
Clyde
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 97 20:26:40 -0400
From: gail cox <wallpro@paperhanging.com>
Subject: PHLIST: Wisdom from Walldude
This Listserv is hand crafted from natural materials. Do not look for
machine precision. Shading, small variations and discrepancies are to be
expected and are part of the inherent beauty of this product.
walldude
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 97 20:29:14 -0400
From: gail cox <wallpro@paperhanging.com>
Subject: PHLIST: CP Message from Lisafxwg@aol.com
So I went to the US School of Prof Paperhanging when supposedly it was
the only school of its kind in the country. My class had people from at
least 12 different states in it...1980 was the year. I am 35 and I have
been hanging paper ever since. Now, I often wind up working with people
who went to my school. The criteria for certification was difficult, at
best. Any one who went to the school knows that. It was hard, awesome,
thorough and challenging. I really think that the instructors ate razor
blades for breakfast!....Anyhow, I am apalled in 1997 to see some of my
fellow graduates' work--what they consider acceptable. I must be an
exceptionally neat, meticulous, efficient and proud worker if some of
these "certified" professionals stay in business as long as they have.
My point is that titles and degrees are nice and impressive but
personally all that tells me is that someone had the time and money to go
to school. It is what they choose to do with it that matters. School
requires discipline, persistance, patience and honesty.,,,Apply those
principles to cleaning toilets and you will have a great "custodial
engineer"...
I am good because I do it every day, not just on the weekends...why
should anyone be called a paperhanger because they put a border up in
someone's house. I think certification is important to determine the
kind and amount of knowledge someones had started out with, but it proves
nothing to me if it is not used. That is the true test.
Lisafxwg@aol.com
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 97 20:47:26 -0400
From: gail cox <wallpro@paperhanging.com>
Subject: PHLIST: David's 1st email REPOST
Dear List,
I have been an installer now going on five years and a member of the
Guild for going on three--- a relatively springy chicken. However, I see
nothing wrong in having a CP program as long as it is meaningful.
I dont understand how people would be led to think of themselves as
'lesser' installers simply because they do not have that designation next
to their name-- unless such insecurity resides in their own minds. I am
not a CP and it doesnt bother me at all. I think its a wonderful idea
for installers to have something to strive for which permits them to
demonstrate that they are willing to put forth extra effort-- rather like
a merit badge. I think it is a good thing that SOME installers CAN read
and I think that that should be encouraged. It think it is a plus, after
all, to have at least a semi-literate 'professional' organization.
Because I have a Bachelor's degree does that mean I am superior to
everyone who does not?
Dont be rediculous. It simply means I took some extra time to go to
college and learn about something in a particular area. Are there people
in the Guild that are really that silly over a couple of letters next to
somebody's name? To take this logic to an extreme-- should we do away
with the Phd designation of other professionals because some other people
might feel inferior? Of course not.
Personally, I think the CP program should go even further and include a
videotaped dissertation and demonstration which would then be included in
the Guild library OR for those of us who might have a more scholarly
inclination-- a thesis instead e.g., the history of wallpaper. I think
those of us who can approach this profession in a more academic and
scholarly manner should be encouraged to do so-- it enhances the
professional image of all of us.
A written test is basic to this. Further, it can give us a common point
of reference when discussing various techniques. One of the bones of
contention that I have heard discussed is the validity of the text upon
which the test is based. Obviously, it would be nice to base the test
upon genarally accepted principles of the profession. Perhaps we need to
look at that. Perhaps we need to look at different ways of administering
the test. But let's not throw the baby out with the bath water.
In any case, I think it is good that we all read some of the same things
whether we think the 'correct' answers are correct or not. This, itself
can be a useful tool to establishing and dialogueing about generally
accepted practices in the trade. One example of the importance of this
comes for me on a recent job. The lady didnt like that I didnt wrap her
45 degree corners because I split and overlapped them (a little). You ALL
know what Im talking about. I explained to her why I did that but she
still thought I might be cheating her so she called the wallpaper store.
They told her that splitting OR wrapping was OK. I had to give a lecture
to the people at the store on why wrapping corners is wrong. I think it
is important and up to us-- the Guild--to establish generally accepted
practices in the trade and profession.
None of these issues are unique to the wallcoverings installation trade.
Any professional organization-- the medical profession or the Bar are
good examples-- tries to establish standards and open a dialogue amongst
peers and similar professionals by which they can self-regulate a measure
of professionalism over there own. The reason they do this is that they
recognize that each individual (or loose cannon) reflects-- for better or
for worse-- on everyone else's reputation in the trade.
The CP program is but one avenue by which we may move along this road. I
dont really know the history of it and have never liked 'fait acompli'
stuff. Sounds like a bit more diplomacy and democracy may have been in
order. It also sounds to me like more needs to be done with the program
to make it meaningful. But if the main argument against it is that some
people might feel left out of it then I am wholeheartedly unsympathetic
to its detractors.
David Veith, not CP
Tapezierer@aol.com
NGPP, Atlanta Chapter
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 97 21:01:50 -0400
From: gail cox <wallpro@paperhanging.com>
Subject: PHLIST: from Debby Athearn with a question...
Well Gail, you certainly managed to stir up a hornet's nest with your
paperhangers list!
And here's yet another thought on the Guild and CP status (or lack of).
When I started hanging paper about 14 years ago, I hadn't heard of the
guild. I was just looking for a way to supplement our income-we had just
bought an old house and after hanging new paper in several rooms, I
thought I knew enough to <hang my shingle>. (Not using quotes) I got a
phone call from Laura Brown of the Boston chapter because she had seen my
little ad in our local classifieds. She was recruiting new members for
the Guild. I bit and joined. I soon learned I knew next to nothing. I
bought books, I practiced what I had read about, I read more books and
practiced more trimming techniques. I read more, attended a couple of
conventions, practiced some more techniques. I asked a lot of questions
(I still do), attended a fall workshop, read some more, practiced,
practiced, practiced. Somewhere along the line-and mostly through the
Guild, I became an acceptable paperhanger. I'm still learning- as we all
are.
When I first joined the Guild, it was a fraternal organization. It was
geared to us as individuals. The newsletter was full of interesting
articles on making us better paperhangers and business people. The
conventions were fun, the workshops were extremely informative and we all
learned from each other. Not a lot of time spent on who did what for
whom, horn tooting and legal-eze. Everyone joined in and was on equal
ground. Once the CP thing got started, it seemed that members started
separating into different war camps (and some apparently retreated to the
trenches). Do you think their plan is to <divide and conquer>? If so,
the guild is doing a good job of it. Too bad-it was a great organization
and could be again. Maybe they should drop the whole certification plan.
It sounds like no one really benefits from it as far as increasing our
business and only causes <hostility in the ranks>. I've thought about
dropping my membership but I still have a lot to learn. Besideds, I like
all the people I've met through the Guild.
Clyde Morron brought this little ditty to my attention and we all could
learn by it. <If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the
problem.> So I guess I'll hang in there and see what I can do.
Rich Meade is in charge of the newsletter now and is trying very hard to
drum up vestiges of the old newsletter, but he can't do it without all of
us helping.
The Guild may need some restructuring and maybe certification turned out
not to be such a good idea but all of us moaning and groaning about it
isn't going to help <although it certainly has gained a lot of
attention>.
Now here's my question-totally unrelated to this Guild discussion. I
don't do any painting but try to keep up with what's going on in the
painting field. The painter on the job where I'm working painted the
interior trim of a bathroom with flat latex paint. Customer wanted
semi-gloss so he was going to cover it with water-base polyurethane. I
never heard of doing this and wonder if I'm witnessing a station wagon
warrior in action. Is this acceptable? I won't even mention that it's a
lousy paint job. Thanks all!
Debby Athearn
bathearn@vineyard.net
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 97 21:04:38 -0400
From: gail cox <wallpro@paperhanging.com>
Subject: PHLIST: from Lisafxwg@aol.com
right on
Lisafxwg@aol.com
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 97 20:49:13 -0400
From: gail cox <wallpro@paperhanging.com>
Subject: PHLIST: David Veith on CP
Dear List,
Michael Keith's comments are well taken In regards to the CP program. I
have heard his same reservations about the program echoed by other senior
members, as well. It is clear to me that if we are going to have this
kind of designation system within the organization, such a designation
must command some significance and respect amongst peers. In my opinion,
a CP designation should signify that such a member has done something
truly distinguished and worthy of a measure of honor or else we might as
well trash it IMO
In Jim Grumley's response I dont completely fathom the connection that he
makes between being a CP and the licensing of contractors in the state of
California. If what you are saying, Jim, is that there is a danger that
CP certification could give birth to a Frankenstein's monster of state
licensing of wallcoverings installers, then I am so far unpersuaded that
this is a real danger. Perhaps I am naive. However, if such a potential
does exist, then I agree-- put the beast to death immediately!! But I
would ask you to make a better case to convince me that it really poses
that kind of problem.
The other assertion Jim makes is that CP certification gives rise to
"different classes of members" and would therefore be divisive of
the
membership. I have heard this one before, too, and yet I dont perceive
this as a problem in my experience with the Guild.... so far. Most of the
CPs I know are very self-effacing in regards to their designation and
have much the same feelings of embarrassment as Michael Keith expresses
in his post. Perhaps we are a more easy-going sort here in Georgia. My
personal belief is that people who are confident in themselves are not
intimidated by 'classes.' Jim also states that the day may come when
those with a CP will somehow use it against those who do not. I dont buy
that one, either. I suppose it could be some kind of underground plot,
though-- we will have to interrogate Norman in the point.
Im not ready to give up on the CP thing yet but it clearly needs some
work. Michael-- you have been in the Guild a long time and have a lot of
experience at National....... what would you suggest? Do you think we
should ditch the whole idea??
David Veith
Tapezierer@aol.com
Atlanta Chapter, NGPP
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 97 21:07:27 -0400
From: gail cox <wallpro@paperhanging.com>
Subject: PHLIST: David on Scrambled Messages
Dear Gail,
I know I shouldnt be ragging on you. You have gone to a great deal of
trouble and now-- expense-- to set this whole thing up. I greatly
appreciate your efforts in this and I am very grateful. We now have a
forum through which we can discuss matters which had heretofore not been
available. This is going to be a great educational tool for me.
I hope the NGPP leadership becomes as progressive in their thinking as
you are. I am told that they do not want to do message boards on the web
site because its too expensive <sigh> so I'll have to post my whining
comments here for the time being....
Thankyou Gail,
David Veith
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 97 21:11:24 -0400
From: gail cox <wallpro@paperhanging.com>
Subject: PHLIST: From jparodi@warwick.net
I have to get out some of my back issues of The Installer. I believe it
was last summer that I read that the national would be testing
wallcoverings for manufacturers for a fee of $50. What I found surprising
was that the testing program was to be conducted by CPs. Actually, I
wasn't really surprised at that, but rather, surprised by the deafening
silence of the (at that time) 84% of the non-CP members.
To Jim Grumbley wrote yesterday....
The whole issue of being a cp is going to lead to different classes of
members, which i am totally against. Will the day come along when
manufacturers suggest that their paper should be hung only by a cp???
...It seems like the day came and went without so much as a whimper
(unless there were letters to the Editor that were dumped)
I wrote to the national and the letter never saw the light of day. At the
time I didn't yet realize the new editorial policy did not allow this
sort of commentary .
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 21:22:00 -0400 (EDT)
From: DGreene431@aol.com
Subject: Re: PHLIST: Wisdom from Walldude
ROFL WallDude you're priceless :::::::Grinning::::::::
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 21:26:38 -0400 (EDT)
From: Tapezierer@aol.com
Subject: Re: PHLIST: from Debby Athearn with a question...
I cant imagine why he would use a water-base polyurethane. Even though it's
water-base, it will yellow-- though not as much as an oil. Why didnt he use
a
semi-gloss in the same color??
sounds like you have a live one...... I used to work for a paint maufacturer
for 9 years....makes no sense to me although it will stick
he also should know better than to put flat on the trim in the first place
David Veith
tapezierer@aol.com
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 23:32:39 +0000
From: morron@ns.vvm.com
Subject: PHLIST: NGPP website
David,
I'm on the NGPP Member Services Committee, and I suggested to
Mike DiGilio at the Convention in Vegas that the NGPP website
needs a message board. He took the suggestion, and hopefully
we'll see a message board in time.
Clyde Morron
morron@vvm.com
------------------------------
End of paperhanging-digest V1 #1
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