paperhanging-digest Thursday, January 22 1998 Volume 01 : Number 121
In this issue:
Re: PHLIST: re: whites [Gtm <Gtm@aol.com>]
Re: PHLIST: Re: employment [Gtm <Gtm@aol.com>]
Re: PHLIST: Re: On the subject of speed [walter green <prospeak@mindsprin]
Re: PHLIST: On the subject of speed. [walter green <prospeak@mindspring.c]
PHLIST: Q and A ["Robert M. or Mary T. Kelly" <wrna@vgernet.net>]
Re: PHLIST: Re: On the subject of speed [Rodcalump <Rodcalump@aol.com>]
Re: PHLIST: Q and A [Kjpaints <Kjpaints@aol.com>]
Re: PHLIST: employment and learning [MASUSIEQ <MASUSIEQ@aol.com>]
PHLIST: We had some Bounced posts [<wallpro@paperhanging.com>]
Re: PHLIST: Re: PAPER DOESENT MATCH [LUSHYVO <LUSHYVO@aol.com>]
PHLIST: If you don't want to hear a gripe delete this [<wallpro@paperhang]
PHLIST: about digests and replying [<wallpro@paperhanging.com>]
PHLIST: Re: Welcome to paperhanging-digest [dressitup@juno.com (Nancy L. ]
Re: PHLIST: re: whites [TAPOFIX <TAPOFIX@aol.com>]
Re: PHLIST: laser torpedo level [TAPOFIX <TAPOFIX@aol.com>]
Re: PHLIST: Re: On the subject of speed [LUSHYVO <LUSHYVO@aol.com>]
PHLIST: re: Draw-Tite [MtnGirl19 <MtnGirl19@aol.com>]
Re: PHLIST: If you don't want to hear a gripe delete this [Rodcalump <Rod]
PHLIST: re: Scotch Paint [MtnGirl19 <MtnGirl19@aol.com>]
Re: PHLIST: re:Books [BDoug32603 <BDoug32603@aol.com>]
Re: PHLIST: If you don't want to hear a gripe delete this [WALLDUDE <WALL]
Re: PHLIST: Re: employment [Bon Yea <BonYea@aol.com>]
Re: PHLIST: re:Books [Gtm <Gtm@aol.com>]
PHLIST: job well done and apreciated [cindy <zigapp4@apk.net>]
PHLIST: Re: marketing/employment [DRhrMas <DRhrMas@aol.com>]
PHLIST: first comercial job [cindy <zigapp4@apk.net>]
Re: PHLIST: first comercial job [Roger Braker <msebrakr@telepath.com>]
Re: PHLIST: If you don't want to hear a gripe delete this [KEWallpap <KE]
Re: PHLIST: Q and A [walter green <prospeak@mindspring.com>]
Re: PHLIST: Q and A [walter green <prospeak@mindspring.com>]
Re: PHLIST: Q and A [diligent <diligent@MCIONE.com>]
Re: PHLIST: Q and A [Kymberama <Kymberama@aol.com>]
PHLIST: Unbendable Sanitas [jparodi@warwick.net]
PHLIST: Re:first comercial job [WALLDUDE <WALLDUDE@aol.com>]
----------------------------------------------------------------- -----
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 06:53:10 EST
From: Gtm <Gtm@aol.com>
Subject: Re: PHLIST: re: whites
Have you tried white Levi jeans???some of the guild women wear them.
Gerard
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 06:59:44 EST
From: Gtm <Gtm@aol.com>
Subject: Re: PHLIST: Re: employment
Bonnye; How about dinner and drinks at La Fogata, Mi Tierra or Tomatillos as
payment while training....I would have gone for that 32 years ago !!
Gerard
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 11:28:58 -0500
From: walter green <prospeak@mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: PHLIST: Re: On the subject of speed
You can bitch and make a difference, on occasion. You can also
>refuse to do the work.
That was my Mon and Tue Bob! I was told the house would be ready, it was a
multimillion dollar home, I called in my brother to help me knock it out,
got there and the place was a wreck. I sanded and patched two baths (two
hours) as a gift to the homeowner and save a day lost and was told the
other 6 rooms would be ready tomorrow. They put no one on the job to prep
it and it was not ready again the next morning. This time I made a point
of putting the homeowner in front of the contractor and made it clear that
they had not done what they promised, that I was leaving and the homeowner
was not getting their work done because of broken promises by the
contractor. You should have seen the contractor stuttering!
When I give my time away and try to be nice to people who turn around and
lie to me, I lose patience. Now the contractor has to explain himself to
the homeowner, it's not my problem. I found the more willing I was to
walk, the harder they worked to keep their end. I gotta remember to do
this more often!
Walter Green, Atlanta
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 11:40:59 -0500
From: walter green <prospeak@mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: PHLIST: On the subject of speed.
>Table: I use tressels (only two - I need a third) and a 32" slab uncut
door.
>It fits neatly inside the driver side of my van, standing up along the wall.
>I seal it when it's new but when it wears out, I just get a new one. $20
at
>Home Depot.
Kelly, I use a 32" flat luan bi-fold doors for a trestle top. It folds
and carries easily. The hollow core mohagany marks nicely for a built in
ruler-guide and seals with a variety of products. I get two to three years
out of a 25 dollar door. I do inlays and decorative things to the door to
make it a PR tool as well. Sort of indirect marketing.
Walter
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 08:41:15 -0400
From: "Robert M. or Mary T. Kelly" <wrna@vgernet.net>
Subject: PHLIST: Q and A
to: Kelly Johnson
Kelly, you wrote about making the best of a bad situation (bad walls,
bad paper). I am quoting your questions and taking a whack at the
answers:
Q. Sometimes , I have actually hung the paper to match the crooked room
to deminish the effect of how bad the trim is out of plumb.
> If I had (and I have!) hung the paper straight and level, it would have
looked crooked. By hanging crooked, it caused the perception that it was straight.
Was that quality?
A. Absolutely. Any idiot can hang a plaid straight in a crooked room.
The problem is that it will always look crooked. It takes a
craftsperson to hang a plaid in all rooms so that it looks straight,
whether the room is straight or not.
Q. Sometimes, when I match the pattern at the top, and smooth the
paper out, the pattern no longer matches in the middle or at the
bottom. Is that poor quality on my part?
A. Not unless you're Jesus Christ Almighty. You have to de- personalize
the situation. Ask yourself, "Is this happening to me because of me (my
skills, my tools, my materials) or would this be happening to any other
paperhanger in this situation"? If the answer is the latter, you think
about the fallout. Is there a chance the customer would say the
former? If so, you have to bring them around to your point of view. If
you have no reasonable chance to do this (due to schedule) then you have
a choice: do the job, and count on being able to explain later why the
material falls short, or (if you don't think you can do this and you
expect flak) walk.
Q. How do I explain to tha customer that they have chosen
> bad paper, and not a bad paperhanger?
A. You have to 1.) know exactly what the problem is, 2.) be able to
explain it to the customer, and 3.) have the confidence and will power
to convince the customer. Most paperhangers can do the first one, some
fall short on the second one and many fall short on the third one.
Q. If I know beforehand that it's going to
> work out this way, why, oh tell me why in the heck should I go slow?
A. No reason. Once you make the decision to hang, you hang it as fast
as you can.
Q. Most people I work for live in houses built by questionable
tradesmen. Secondly,
> they are median-income folks that just want some new wallpaper or painting.
> They are not interested in what happened during the consturction of their
> home. They can't do anything about that. In many cases, they have taken
out
> a home improvement loan just to get the thing decoratively updated. These
are
> the kind of people that provide most of the work for most of us. For most
of
> us, most of oue clients in residential are adverage people that struggle
and
> make sacrifices just to have us come in and dress up their house. My job
is
> to make their house look as good as possible with what they give me and
I plan
> to make as much money as the market will bear. Is that quality?
A. Your attitude to make as much money as possible is not inconsistent
with quality but will you please take a look at your language? You make
your customers sound like the victims. Just because they want you do
the work doesn't mean that you need to take the job. As a professional,
you have to resign yourself to the fact that some people (a lot of
people) will not be able to afford your services by default. And I
really don't want to hear about their house that was built by
questionable tradesmen and how they are scraping to get by. Hey, so are
a lot of people. People that buy homes like that and expect
professional people such as ourselves to turn cartwheels and make it
into a palace for them and work for peanuts in the process are seriously
deluded. You would not trust or employ a lawyer or accountant who was
at the bottom of the pay scale, and the same holds true for professional
paperhanging. Quality costs money. If they have a limited budget,
fine, they can look in the Penny Saver or some other avenue of getting
it done (have they heard of D-I-Y?). Don't cut yourself down to fill
their needs, bring them up to your level by showing them a quality job.
People know quality when they see it, and this is what sets you apart,
and this is the *only* reason why people will pay more for your services
than the "going" rate. So there. (Whew.)
Robert M. Kelly
Lee, Ma.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 08:57:12 EST
From: Rodcalump <Rodcalump@aol.com>
Subject: Re: PHLIST: Re: On the subject of speed
When it comes to new construction, the bigger the job, the longer the delays
are. For this reason, I do not try to cultivate builders as clients . My
general rule of thumb is that they will be ready for me 6 weeks past the date
that they initially promise completion . My biggest job ran 6 months past the
original date & still had to be done in stages over the next 7 months. The
customer kept making changes & additions to the original design. The toughest
thing about finish work is that everything rolls down hill. The pressure is
on you & other finish workers to hurry up on work that can't be hurried
to
compensate for delays by so many workers & suppliers that preceded you.
I
check weekly about a month in advance of the target date to see how far back
they will need to push me. I go to the site myself & take a good look &
if
things are questionable, I point them out. If they want me to be on hold for
them, they can pay me my daily rate to sit & wait--so far no one has offered
to do this for me. Don't feel bad--they tell white lies to the homeowner too.
I love my job, but every job has its drawbacks.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 09:27:56 EST
From: Kjpaints <Kjpaints@aol.com>
Subject: Re: PHLIST: Q and A
Bob,
You're awsome, and I love you,man! Thanks for confirming the conclusions to
which I had already come. I do want to clear up one misconception. I don't
feel sorry for people that can't afford my services, and I never lower my
prices (unless it's a little old widow lady, then I'm just a bowl full of
jelly!) or standards. I'm rejected because of price about 10% of the time,
and because of scheduling (I just can't do it now, O.K.!?) we lose another 10%
of prospective customers. I also have instituted a minimum charge of $200
just to keep the rif-raf away. If they want me to come hang one border, it's
$200. You have, however touched on an area where I am deficient. I have not
been very good at establishing the parameters in which my business operates,
and comunicating that to the customer. In other words, I have a hard time
saying the "n" word. I've been getting better at it, but I really
don't like
confrontation much. Having said that, in five years, we have had only four
no-pays, and we've never had a bounced check. I like that!
Kelly Johnson Rockwall,TX
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 09:50:06 EST
From: MASUSIEQ <MASUSIEQ@aol.com>
Subject: Re: PHLIST: employment and learning
Yo Gail--did you ever get my e-mail about transfering me to the digest
version? If I want to reponse, how do I go about it. Cherrio, Susie-Q
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 98 10:14:37 -0400
From: <wallpro@paperhanging.com>
Subject: PHLIST: We had some Bounced posts
Yesterday there was a major/minor failure somewhere along the internet
line. There were some posts made to the list which got bounced to me as
unreadable.
Unfortunately they were REALLY unreadable and I can't tell where they
came from let alone what it once said. So if you posted yesterday and it
didn't get on you might want to send it again today...
I also had one post bounce from someone who had changed their internet
address. In order to get on the list your internet address must be
EXACTLY the same as the address you use to subscribe. Otherwise the wise
ole computer bounces the thing. (It insists on every hair being in
place... ;-)
gail cox
Please visit our site at
http://www.paperhanging.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 10:43:29 EST
From: LUSHYVO <LUSHYVO@aol.com>
Subject: Re: PHLIST: Re: PAPER DOESENT MATCH
This is for Gary:
I stopped using a water tray a long time ago. It was always too much of a
hassle to carry an umbrella and a pair of boots.
Lou Schiavo, CP
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 98 11:28:10 -0400
From: <wallpro@paperhanging.com>
Subject: PHLIST: If you don't want to hear a gripe delete this
I just wanted you to know I wasn't trying to be nasty yesterday in not
giving out the telephone number of scotch paint and instead asking the
person to check the index. The purpose of doing an index is to hold down
the posts that ask the same thing over and over and over. And to give
new people a place to go to catch up on what has been said in the past.
This nice person asked for information that was easily available to her
with a couple of mouse clicks. Despite my asking her to check the index
three people *afterward* replied to give her that information. With 150+
people on the list that is 400 unnecessary emails not counting her own.
Only one of those posters offered any new information.
It takes a lot of time to get an index up and to keep in current. If it
isn't going to be used it doesn't make sense to devote the hours to it
and the effort. The index was requested and I complied....and my plan
right now is to devote the hours each week to keeping it current. But it
will never be used (and the work will be wasted) if frequent posters
don't insist on everyone using it. IF people do use it they will find a
wealth of information available for them anytime they need it...I learned
so much rereading all the posts when I was keying in the words. It made
me so proud just to be in the same room with you guys.
I love the list and the different opinions and wonderful insights it
gives to the business. I love reading the posts and have enjoyed
everyone's participation. But each one of those links that were made to
that index have to been keyed in individually....and there were thousands
of them. So it felt like kind of a slap in the face (sorry it did) when
after I asked her to check the index others posted the information. Like
I was being stingy or nasty or mean...
Right now I am redoing the entire thing so that I can get the digests
single spaced (easier to read) instead of double spaced. I have working
on that since eight o'clock this morning and I just began wondering
(after clicking this durn mouse hundreds of times) if it is worth the
work...
If a tree falls in the woods and nobody hears does it really make a
sound?
Thanks to the couple of you who heard the sound (especially Fred Zier who
tried to improve my html coding ability) and who took the time to look
and report problems or not.
Anyway thanks for listening...back to the mouse...
gail cox
Please visit our site at
http://www.paperhanging.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 98 12:00:49 -0400
From: <wallpro@paperhanging.com>
Subject: PHLIST: about digests and replying
>Yo Gail--did you ever get my e-mail about transfering me to the digest
>version? If I want to reponse, how do I go about it. Cherrio, Susie-Q
>
Do I didn't get it. When did you send it? Did it go to the list or me
personally? I'll move you immediately. Done.
As for the other question...I don't understand... you are posting to the
list...so you are responding..is this what you mean? My poor little ole
muddled brain isn't making any sense of this...sorry... because I really
want to help if I can.
Maybe you mean how do you reply to the digest? The easiest way to reply
when you are on the digest is to make a NEW MAIL. Send it to
paperhanging@mylist.net
Notice the address is NET not COM. Put in the subject line the subject
your email is talking about. Then type your response in the proper place.
There is another way to reply to the digest...
You can just hit REPLY on your emailer. At which time the correct
address will come up. But the subject line will read
PHLIST RE: Digest etc
so it will be difficult for people to tell exactly what you are replying
to unless you change that subject line...So please if you do it this way
remember if you can to change the subject line.
ALSO..if you hit REPLY the entire digest will be copied in your message
space...ugh, ugh, ugh, Probably with little symbols that might look like
this on the front of every line
>
You should delete out what you are NOT replying too. Does that make any
sense? If it doesn't please call me 1-800-633-2796 and I will try and
walk you through it. As best I can anyway...
gail cox
Please visit our site at
http://www.paperhanging.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 20:52:22 -0800
From: dressitup@juno.com (Nancy L. Waight)
Subject: PHLIST: Re: Welcome to paperhanging-digest
Aaron,
Welcome! Welcome! I too am new to the list and have picked up some very
valuable tips and info! I have been hanging paper for about 2- 1/2 --
3yrs now and this past fall I decided I wanted more professional
training. Sure you can eventually figure a lot of it out after years of
practice, but at whose expense? Yours or the customer?
Either way, I felt it was more detrimental(sp) to me than learning it
from professionals. The "professional" I had worked with a few times
tried to discourage me from any formal type of training -- I wish I
hadn't listened to her 1-1/2 yrs ago. As I stated, this past fall I
enrolled in ASPA. I must say, it has been well worth the investment and
I have learned sooooo muuuchhh!! I am almost through the tapes and the
info is invaluable and also I can refresh my memory whenever I need to,
because I have all the lessons and notes at my fingertips. If you
haven't done so already, I suggest you check their courses out, and
strongly urge you to enroll.
Nan
Galesburg, IL
"Lord, if I follow You, I know it will be okay."
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 10:57:06 EST
From: TAPOFIX <TAPOFIX@aol.com>
Subject: Re: PHLIST: re: whites
women's whites also available at specialty uniform shops for law enforcement
and medical peoples.
Joann/Tapo-Fix
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 10:53:27 EST
From: TAPOFIX <TAPOFIX@aol.com>
Subject: Re: PHLIST: laser torpedo level
I think "the guy" you are talking about is guild member Dave Garnett,
and he
and his brother do a lot of this laser stuff as well as sell it!
Joann and Sig/Tapo-Fix/Davis
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 10:56:16 EST
From: LUSHYVO <LUSHYVO@aol.com>
Subject: Re: PHLIST: Re: On the subject of speed
Walter;
It really irks me when I read about the conditions builders expect us to
work
under. Here are my conditions.
2 weeks notice before starting job.
No other contractors on job site.
Need water, electric, and heat.
Want to be paid in 7 days.
If they don't agree - that's fine - there's too much residential work in this
area
to put up with that hassle.
You sound like my kind of guy - like to meet you someday.
Lou Schiavo
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 12:51:59 EST
From: MtnGirl19 <MtnGirl19@aol.com>
Subject: PHLIST: re: Draw-Tite
I'm sooooo excited!!! (And no I didn't get into Walldude
medication.) I just got off the phone with Scotch Paint.
I spoke with a guy named Charles who knew everything
there was to know about Draw-Tite. He's joining the
ListServ soon, so you'll be able to question him about
his products too.
All of you paperhangers should contact him to get your
FREE sample of Draw-Tite. If you're in the Guild, you
can get enough samples for your entire chapter! You can
reach Charles at:
1-800-404-2878 or fax him at 1-310-769-0436 or
e-mail him at CPaintMan1@aol.com or you could
just wait for him to show up here on the ListServ!
This product sounds incredible and I can't wait to try it.
There's an ad on page 13 of the Nov/Dec issue of PWC
magazine which can tell you more about it.
Take care,
Lauretta
N. CA Chapter, NGPP
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 13:28:27 EST
From: Rodcalump <Rodcalump@aol.com>
Subject: Re: PHLIST: If you don't want to hear a gripe delete this
Dear Gail,
I'm glad you posted your gripe. You should look at it as more instructional
&
not feel that you offended anybody. The main problem that I can see with e-
mail & the like is it is easy to misinterpret what someone writes because
you
generally don't have a working knowlege of the writer. In other words, you
haven't met them & you can't see their face or hear their tone of voice
to
know what they mean. I am brand new to this phlist myself & have barely
taken the time to browse through the index. I am really looking forward to
mulling through everything because I really love this phlist. I want to thank
you for initiating the idea. I have no idea what is involved in compiling all
this information because I am only microscopically computer literate. Just
want to say thanks a million for helping me & so many others feel a bit
more
connected & for spreading so much wit & wisdom around. You have every
right
to point out anything that we all can do to make things go more smoothly for
everyone.
Mary Grace Umpleby
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 12:26:13 EST
From: MtnGirl19 <MtnGirl19@aol.com>
Subject: PHLIST: re: Scotch Paint
Thank you everyone for being so helpful and responding
so quickly! I'll call them today, and hope to get my
sample soon. And Gail I will try that mailbag the next
time I need "old" information.
Have a terrific day everyone!
Lauretta
N. CA Chapter, NGPP
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 17:47:52 EST
From: BDoug32603 <BDoug32603@aol.com>
Subject: Re: PHLIST: re:Books
Greetings Everyone,
A few weeks ago, someone had requested a list of good paperhanging books. A
kind person sent the list, but I forgot to write down the names of the books
and authors. Does anyone have this info? Would be much appreciated.
Bruce
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 13:55:21 EST
From: WALLDUDE <WALLDUDE@aol.com>
Subject: Re: PHLIST: If you don't want to hear a gripe delete this
Thank you Gail
If you have a question regarding an aspect of our craft, then by all means,
ask the question. With 150 paperhangers on line, there are in excess of 2000
years of cumilative trade lore residing in our listmates. Of this, you should
avail yourself.
If you have an answer, by all means, post your response. There may be a bit
of
duplication but we can live with that, for in each post is the potential of
a
gem we can all use. We have no way of knowing whether a piece of information
that we possess is universally known, so throw it out and see who salutes.
However, If you have a communication to another single list mate, ask yourself
if the entire list needs to read this. If you have a comment or a request
directed to one person, e mail that person directly and ease up on the mailbox
clutter for the rest of us. If you are answering a post, highlight a line or
two for reference. It is maddening to have to read through ten paragraphs of
a
post we have already read, to finally see one or two lines of a reply, and
please make certain that the subject line reflects the subject matter. And
ease off on that capslock. POSTS THAT ARE PRINTED IN UPPER CASE ARE
DIFFICULT TO READ AND IMPLY AN URGENCY THAT RARELY EXISTS.
I feel better
dood
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 18:54:59 EST
From: Bon Yea <BonYea@aol.com>
Subject: Re: PHLIST: Re: employment
Gerard...anytime you are in town...I promise that LaFogata is the place!!!
It is still there and I am sure the Margaritas are still flowing.
Hope work is great. Talk to you soon.
Bonnye
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 19:39:15 EST
From: Gtm <Gtm@aol.com>
Subject: Re: PHLIST: re:Books
Doug try this address paperhanging@mylist.net everything that goes on in this
list is cataloged by the one and only Gail Cox , and she does a good job!!!
Gerard Jansen
Atlanta NGPP Chapter
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 20:29:31 +0000
From: cindy <zigapp4@apk.net>
Subject: PHLIST: job well done and apreciated
gail, i like the index, in fact i would love to have a printed version,
but ill get to that later, I think you did an awsome job, in fact i have
a question for the list but i think ill check the index first before i
ask. this place sure is gettin busy aint it. cindy
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 18:46:12 EST
From: DRhrMas <DRhrMas@aol.com>
Subject: PHLIST: Re: marketing/employment
Thanks you for the advice. I understand what you are saying about using the
phone for the reasons that you stated. I worked for my father in the
restaurant business for 15 years (Apple Creek, Ohio) It was a little 42 seat
restaurant when we bought it. We bought the house next door (which originally
was joined to the restaurant when it was a stop on the trail) added 40 more
seats, took the original front porch and made an colonial style- intimate
dingng room for 18, and a few years later we added a larger kitchen and a more
formal dining room for banquets that seats 70. In this room I dug out a book
on Williamsburg and Dad and I did more molding work and period paint. Our
last phase, before selling, was to repaper the original dining room, finish
new restrooms and add a salad bar room,(Oh yes, Dad just had to take out a
wall from our phase II job and leave me scrambling with 3 rooms of paper to
bring together, none of which I could buy since I had purchased it 3 or 4
years prior.
Every project that we did I was the one who chose carpet, drapes, paint,
paper, and the trims. At the time, I wasn't enjoying it; when we finally got
everything done and everyday women made mention of the pretty bathroom. It had
a nice border with rag rolling above and combing below. I also made a vanity
skirt using rose fabric underneath and a lace overskirt with some handwork .
I realized that I must have done a good job, even though all the rooms had a
little different theme, there was a coming together of it all. I though
pretty good for someone not knowing much when she started all of this.
I don't regret having the restaurant because I believe it is what got me to
where I am today, I just didn't know it at first. I have done alot of sewing,
painting, sawing and so on. Yes, I even learned how to wait tables LOL.
Which I am doing again, but only on a part- time basis. When you talk about
people not willing to train, I know what you mean. I trained enough
waitresses to know a *good* one when I saw one. You know "the lights are
on
but nobody is home" syndrom. They do slow you down and all you want to
do is
get through the day without your customers thinking it was your first day.
In conclusion, I was feeling pretty confident about papering until... I
started reading the PHlist and feel it would be best to find someone,
somewhere who is willing to have me tag along when they need an extra hand-and
yes, for free. I even though it would be easier to start doing painting, if
it got me out there where I could start building a relationship with my local
stores. I have been trying to frequent the paint and paper stores to work on
a
relationship. I enjoy all aspects of a project but I think it best to be
skilled at one thing. I envy you guys in the south with all those historic
homes filled with details and moldings and don't forget that period furniture.
Thanks, Donna
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 21:41:51 +0000
From: cindy <zigapp4@apk.net>
Subject: PHLIST: first comercial job
well back from the index, its like going to the basement, kept finding
all kinds of interesting things, you can get lost down there. but i did
not find the answer to my question. I really hate to bring this primer
question back up, but im having a huge problem on that comercial job, im
on. just a refresher its a big hotel, were stripping existing paper
making extrensive wall repairs and rehanging 54 inch vinal. my first
comercial job. when i hang the vinal i can in no way, reposition a
piece, or take one down the wall primer just sheets off down to bare
drywall in large secions, when i double cut the pieces it sheets more of
it off, especially at the top. and over any patches, doesnt matter if i
double cut as soon as ive hung the piece or wait till the wall is hung
and go back and make my double cuts. im using a doublecutter tool [nifty
little thing once i got the hang of it] so im not cutting into the wall
at all. In one spot i had to reposition a piece, and got these huge
bubbles i mean huge, here the paper had popped off the face of the
drywall. i got on the painters to make sure they had dusted the walls
after making repairs.could be an inferior prime job of priming over
dust. ill find out friday on a new room if that was the problem. im also
getting alot of gas? bubbles , some are drying down some are not . were
using a product by dutch standard called versa-seal. up untill now ive
had no problem with it. sheildz wont work, and oil base is not an
option, ive tried,and tried, and tried, and it just is not possible.any
body have any sugestions,as long as its not oil theyll try it, oh yea
,unfortunatly im on a strict time frame the hotel will only open so many
rooms at a time for me, so they prime one day i paper the next.
ive been having this problem with the wall prep, boss has been pushing
me for time,trying to learn to use a new machine, furniture obsticle
course, and was given a guy to start to teach to help me and trying to
teach myself the best way to work the 54 inch.... got mad enough today
to just say #*!!!*!# and went off by myself and hung a wall and didnt
worry about none of that , and what a nice thing to hang went up nice
and easy and quick, just enjoyed it. nice product to work with. not too
bad at all.enjoyed my job again for that brief hour see ya cindy
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 22:09:28
From: Roger Braker <msebrakr@telepath.com>
Subject: Re: PHLIST: first comercial job
When I have primed walls on commercial jobs, I have used Evans Vinyl Primer
and have had no problems. Secondly on many commercial jobs I use Evans
heavy duty clear. It claims to not need a primer, and is dry strippable. I
have used it many times with no primer and have had no problems. The only
time I use the primer is when hanging commercial fabric. Then I have to
paste the wall and the vinyl primer keeps the paste from drying too fast.
Roger B.
At 09:41 PM 1/21/98 +0000, you wrote:
>well back from the index, its like going to the basement, kept finding
>all kinds of interesting things, you can get lost down there. but i did
>not find the answer to my question. I really hate to bring this primer
>question back up, but im having a huge problem on that comercial job, im
>on. just a refresher its a big hotel, were stripping existing paper
>making extrensive wall repairs and rehanging 54 inch vinal. my first
>comercial job. when i hang the vinal i can in no way, reposition a
>piece, or take one down the wall primer just sheets off down to bare
>drywall in large secions, when i double cut the pieces it sheets more of
>it off, especially at the top. and over any patches, doesnt matter if i
>double cut as soon as ive hung the piece or wait till the wall is hung
>and go back and make my double cuts. im using a doublecutter tool [nifty
>little thing once i got the hang of it] so im not cutting into the wall
>at all. In one spot i had to reposition a piece, and got these huge
>bubbles i mean huge, here the paper had popped off the face of the
>drywall. i got on the painters to make sure they had dusted the walls
>after making repairs.could be an inferior prime job of priming over
>dust. ill find out friday on a new room if that was the problem. im also
>getting alot of gas? bubbles , some are drying down some are not . were
>using a product by dutch standard called versa-seal. up untill now ive
>had no problem with it. sheildz wont work, and oil base is not an
>option, ive tried,and tried, and tried, and it just is not possible.any
>body have any sugestions,as long as its not oil theyll try it, oh yea
>,unfortunatly im on a strict time frame the hotel will only open so many
>rooms at a time for me, so they prime one day i paper the next.
> ive been having this problem with the wall prep, boss has been pushing
>me for time,trying to learn to use a new machine, furniture obsticle
>course, and was given a guy to start to teach to help me and trying to
>teach myself the best way to work the 54 inch.... got mad enough today
>to just say #*!!!*!# and went off by myself and hung a wall and didnt
>worry about none of that , and what a nice thing to hang went up nice
>and easy and quick, just enjoyed it. nice product to work with. not too
>bad at all.enjoyed my job again for that brief hour see ya cindy
>
>
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 19:42:28 EST
From: KEWallpap <KEWallpap@aol.com>
Subject: Re: PHLIST: If you don't want to hear a gripe delete this
Gail
If a man speaks in the woods, and there is no woman around to hear him is he
still wrong?
Kjell
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 10:50:46 -0500
From: walter green <prospeak@mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: PHLIST: Q and A
People that buy homes like that and expect
>professional people such as ourselves to turn cartwheels and make it
>into a palace for them and work for peanuts in the process are seriously
>deluded.
Hallelujah!!!
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 10:57:13 -0500
From: walter green <prospeak@mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: PHLIST: Q and A
Any idiot can hang a plaid straight in a crooked room.
I had an end wall in a dining room to do with a plaid years ago and if the
carpenter had not been there with a framing square, I never would have
figured out the plaid was printed off-square on the paper. She re-ordered
and it turns out the corners both leand the same ammount in the same
direction (parallelogram). She insisted I lean the paper to go with the
corners and it look pretty good until she brought in her perfect rectangle
of a china cabinet and the lean showed on the cabinet sides. She put a
block of wood under the cabinet to make it lean as much as the corners and
the paper. I told her to glue her plates down....
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 22:47:40 -0600
From: diligent <diligent@MCIONE.com>
Subject: Re: PHLIST: Q and A
Any idiot can hang a plaid straight in a crooked room.
I remember years ago when I was an apprentice sent out to hang a plaid
w/wide lines in a room at a church. The chair rail was out of level about
3", the grid ceiling was put in with a laser meaning very level.
Not knowing any better I hung it according to the crooked chair rail on the
upper half. It made the ceiling look like it leaning or off level by a long
shot, the ceiling man look in and said #$%#$%%^&#$#$^* boy was he pe-od.
Inexpirence at that time took its toll. I should have ask for the carpenter
to rework the existing chair rail in this case.
My point: don't cash in, when apprenticeing everyone has had those "ugly"
monents.
Sometime I'll tell about the sail fish.
Ken
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 01:28:49 EST
From: Kymberama <Kymberama@aol.com>
Subject: Re: PHLIST: Q and A
In a message dated 98-01-21 23:50:27 EST, you write:
<< Any idiot can hang a plaid straight in a crooked room. >>
These stories are too funny to pass up. The first job I ever installed alone
was a plaid. I thought I had it easy it was below chair rail only. The border
being the chair rail. The walls were not straight and two of the corners were
actually 135 degree angles. Nonetheless I measured and I marked off the wall,
when it was time for the border I noticed that there was an incline. The
incline amounted to a total of 1 1/2 inches from where I started to where I
finished. I followed the line on the plaid and it appeared straight. Feeling
guilty of not achieving perfection I felt obligated to tell the customer. I
explained that I had two choices here. 1) install the plaid so that it were
plumb, which would not look right to the eye, however if you pulled out a
level it would be perfect. 2) install the paper to go with the room, in which
case it would look level to the eye but would be off with a level, and
actuallly I chose to do what is right.....install to go with the room and it
is actually off 1 1/2 inch. She was pleased with the job and referred me to
several of her friends. What a way to start a carreer. However if it does not
kill us it only makes us stronger. I gained a lot of strength that day .
Have a GREAT day everyone.
Kymber
Pgh. PA
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 19:14:13 -0800
From: jparodi@warwick.net
Subject: PHLIST: Unbendable Sanitas
When paperhangers get together to complain about the sorry state of
wallcoverings today, I'm afraid I can't really get fired up about the
discussion anymore. Having been a full time residential paperhanger for
20 years now, I have to say that I think the quality of wallcoverings,in
general, has gone up over the past few years.
When I read some posts about how "difficult" it is to wrap Sanitas
around an outside corner, I thought it was time for a reality check.
When hanging fabric backed vinyls it may be necessary to go get your
heat gun to ease installation. As a rule, I've found that the new
lightweight non-woven fabric backed Sanitas is a piece of cake to wrap
around corners. If you're expecting it to wrap like a wet piece of
paper-paper it may be time to change your medication.
(Let me put on my old codgers hat) Why, when I was a young sprout we
had to wrap mylars around corners. Since mylar doesn't respond to heat
the way vinyl does--or to the passage of time (it supposedly will sit
unchanged in landfills for the next 50,000 years), I had to put the
piece on the wall, wrap it, mark the edge lightly with a pencil, take it
off the wall, and then fold a crease in the strip on the table using a
seam roller, then re-hang the strip.
The quality of the vinyl mixture has also improved in most
fabric-backed materials--with the exception of the price-point bottom of
the line Borden garbage. I'm sure there are others bad ones, but if you
buy the Gencorp line (an unsolicited unpaid testimonial), i.e. Boltatex,
Genon, Essex, and Sanitas you assured of getting reasonably supple
material depending on weight.
After the crude oil price hikes in the Seventies the price of virgin
vinyl went through the roof. In an effort to save money, companies threw
God-knows-what into the vinyl vat. The result at that time was horribly
brittle, unbendable rubbish.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 05:21:45 EST
From: WALLDUDE <WALLDUDE@aol.com>
Subject: PHLIST: Re:first comercial job
Cindy
You've said a lot, but Iím not totally clear. From what you've said,
here is
what I've surmised.
<< .......making extensive wall repairs >>
This indicates to me that the wall was damaged in the prior removal process,
and the wall was skimmed with drywall compound. Is this accurate?
<< ........ the wall primer just sheets off down to bare
drywall in large sections, >>
Is the primer lifting from bare drywall or from expanses of drywall compound?
<< .........here the paper had popped off the face of the drywall. >>
When the old vinyl was removed, it probably loosened the bond of this paper
to
the gypsum. It appears to be sound but will separate and bubble with the
introduction of moisture and the slightest of the stresses that occur in the
installation and drying process
<< .......... weíre using a product by dutch standard called versa-seal.
>>
Sorry I'm not familiar with it. Anybody else?
<< ..............oil base is not an option, >>
Why is oil based not an option?
If drywall compound was used to repair the damaged wall then you will probably
continue to have this problem as long as someone insists that you use a water
based primer. Using a water based product, there is not enough penetration of
the skimmed areas to form a stable substrate. The paint will sit atop the
repaired area until the moisture of installation is introduced, then rewet and
come off the wall in wholesale amounts.
I had a similar problem last year while hanging 900 yards in an auto
dealership. The entire job had been previously been installed over bare,
substandard drywall ( When drywall prices rise, inferior Canadian drywall is
ferreted across the border to saturate the US market )
When I carefully removed the old vinyl, cutting and pulling thin strips at a
very acute angle, the drywall surface looked good but began to bubble and de-
laminate when I attempted to hang a new strip. The same happened when oil
primer was used.
The solution was to remove the vinyl violently, pulling at 90 degrees to strip
the unstable paper in one quick move, followed by the use of a sanding stick
loaded with 60 grit to remove the loose paper tags. I then turned the whole
thing over to a drywaller, who skimmed and primed the walls with oil based
undercoater, leaving a sound surface that gave me no problems.
The "discovered damage" clause in the contract kept this from being
a
catastrophe. Incidentally, the bubbling I first experienced mostly
dissappeared within two weeks.
I understand that no one likes the smell of oil based primer and that water
based paint is easier to use. But if we all wanted easy, we probably wouldnít
be in this craft. Itís easy for someone to say oil based paint is out
of the
question, but what would your response be to someone saying to you, ìbuild
that car, but donít use metal ì
If they are adamant about the use of water based primers, then youíll
need to
painstakingly remove all the loose drywall paper, and that may mean ALL of the
paper. Acrylic paint can be added to the drywall mud so that the integrity
will be systemic or built in, but keep in mind that like VOV, cleaning after
it has dried is not an option. You may be able to eliminate priming by using
this step, but in five years when they wish to redecorate, you would do well
to be unavailable
One option I have considered and tried, but not extensively, is the use of
DrawTight, as a penetrating sealer, and strangely enough I received a cryptic
e mail today from TaraHydro@aol.com , someone unknown to me, whose profile on
AOL reads that he is a Hydrologist and Paint Manufacturer. His one line
message :
ìDraw-Tite penetrates better than oilî
If you do decide to give Draw Tight a shot, be advised that it is the
runniest stuff Iíve ever used. It is best applied using a weenie roller
using
only an upstroke. Otherwise youíll get it all over your shoes
Good Luck
dood
------------------------------
End of paperhanging-digest V1 #121
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