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paperhanging-digest Tuesday, September 23 1997 Volume 01 : Number 002



In this issue:

PHLIST: Rock the Vote [jparodi@warwick.net]
PHLIST: To CP or not CP [Wphang1@aol.com]
Re: PHLIST: Rock the Vote [Gtm@aol.com]
Re: PHLIST: Rock the Vote [DGreene431@aol.com]
Re: PHLIST: Rock the Vote YES!!!!! [gail cox <wallpro@paperhanging.com>]
Re: PHLIST: Rock the Vote YES!!!!! [DGreene431@aol.com]
Re: PHLIST: Rock the Vote YES!!!!! [WALLDUDE@aol.com]
PHLIST: pirates [WALLDUDE@aol.com]

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Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 19:01:54 -0700
From: jparodi@warwick.net
Subject: PHLIST: Rock the Vote

This CP vs Non-CP debate is always good for a point- counterpoint. There
are valid opinions on both sides.
However,it is my opinion that it still remains a source of friction
between our members mainly because it has never been voted upon. The
debate we are having should have been going on before this program was
forced into effect by a small group within the Guild.

If this went up for a vote among our members I would support the
outcome either way since it would express the will of the members, not
that of a small cabal. Do yous/yíall agree? Can we use our E- platform
(thanks to Gail) to effect some sort of change in this area? I donít
have a copy of the National bylaws. Can anyone come up with a method to
force this to a vote using our own bylaws?

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Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 19:56:14 -0400 (EDT)
From: Wphang1@aol.com
Subject: PHLIST: To CP or not CP

This is a wonderful political argument to watch. I as a former guild member I
thought the concept was excellent upon first hearing of it. My inclination
was always that a few different levels (apprentice/Journey) would have been
better but be that as it may. let me get to the gist of my thought. After a
few years of being aware of this program and occasionally considering it. I
realised for me it would simply be hubris for me to do it. My customers don't
know the NGPP from a hole in the ground. The NGPP is simply a non-entity for
99.99% of the USA. So what was there to gain. It would simply be another
thing to educate my customers about (like that plate isn't already full).
Suffice to say that while sympathetic to all sides until the NGPP becomes a
true national presence, cp means nothing to no one who doesn't live in this
small domain.

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Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 20:17:02 -0400 (EDT)
From: Gtm@aol.com
Subject: Re: PHLIST: Rock the Vote

Mr Parodi;

I think that as an NGPP member you are entitled to address the board with
your suggestion. I also think that the subject has been discussed ad nauseum.
CP does not bother me at all, I have no intention of trying for it. I am
happy where I am in my life and therefore could care less who is CP or not. I
am concentrating in the quality growth of my chapter, we have a lot going on
and I want to be part of staying that way. I treasure the bond I experience
with the members of this organization from throughout the country regardless
of their status or experience.

While I admit that taking only a written test is not a complete measure of a
person's capabilities as an expert paperhanger, I also think that if a person
is secure about his or her competence they would not need to make this such a
big issue.

It is my opinion that it is time to get on to more important issues in this
organization ,and that we need to come together as a unit to expand the
market share of our bread and butter: WALLPAPER.

In your original letter you offered to call the ex-members about why they
left. I think that the board should let you do it at your expense (as you
offered), as a matter of fact I don't know who would try to stop you from
doing it. It would be interesting to get a sense of why they left. Frankly I
don't think the CP issue would be # 1.

I happen to believe that the death of most organizations is due to
incompetence and mismanagement from the top on down. I also know that if we
get divided over the CP issue we are in trouble. I pray that this new board
will implement changes that will make and keep us strong, not only in the
number of members but in unity..... something that we sorely need.
]
Say hello to my alma mater ...NYMA

Gerard Jansen
Gtm@aol.com
Atlanta NGPP Chapter

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Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 20:41:26 -0400 (EDT)
From: DGreene431@aol.com
Subject: Re: PHLIST: Rock the Vote

I endorse this opinion !!

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Sep 97 00:27:47 -0400
From: gail cox <wallpro@paperhanging.com>
Subject: Re: PHLIST: Rock the Vote YES!!!!!

I believe I am pretty much an authority on wallcovering installers.
After all we've trained well over a thousand installers over the last
twenty years. If I had to say the one thing that most installers have in
common is a highly developed sense of INDEPENDENCE.

Paperhangers will not walk in lockstep. It is completely and totally out
of character for 99.99% of them. They will never just follow someone
because they are suppose to...or just because it is the thing that a
*good member* would do.

Take a look at the kind of traits it takes to be an independent
wallcovering installer. Now look at the traits that it appears the guild
ruling body is unhappy with in some of it's members...

Good heaven.... *jparodi@warwick.net* thinks like most successful
paperhangers we've trained think like. (there's a sentence in there
someplace...) Paperhangers are a unmanageable bunch. That is what makes
them so durn appealing...and successful....

Johnny says that if you put 20 paperhangers in a room you will come up
with 20 different ways of doing something and none of those ways will be
*wrong*.

Paperhangers don't walk in lockstep because in order to be successful at
this trade they have to know how to THINK on their feet. Paperhangers
never have the same day twice. They never can count on any wallpaper to
behave exactly the same way twice (or any customer for that matter....).
They have to learn to trust their instincts and their skill and as Johnny
says..."let the job tell them what to do..."

We always had some students each year who would insist on RULES. They
wanted RULES for hanging mylar or foil or fabric or... Without a firm
set of RULES they felt totally at sea. Our biggest job was convincing
those people that the only rule in paperhanging was THERE AIN'T NO
RULE... (after all we are in the south...so forgive our colorful
english...)

The ones we could convince to think like a paperhanger and not make up
any rules were successful. The ones that insisted on rules usually
didn't last three months after graduation.

So it seems like the national RULING body of the guild had better wake up
and smell the roses. Do away with this *representative* garbage. Before
deciding on important stuff just put it to a vote. Stop muzzling
discussion in the newsletter....after all it should be a voice for the
membership. Anything goes....why not???

This business about not being *allowed* to be critical of manufacturers
bothers me far more than the cp issue. Good heaven...if professionals
can't holler about lousy products in their newsletter who will? The
homeowner who installs one kitchen every ten years? They won't
holler...next time they'll just paint and that is what they are doing in
droves....

Most wallcovering manufacturers are not the paperhangers friend. They
might be their partner but they are NOT their friend. We have different
objectives.

The manufacturers job is to sell a FASHION product. They market it as a
fashion product. When was the last time you saw a wallcovering that was
produced with the end installation in mind before fashion was considered?
For the vast majority of manufacturers QUALITY is way, way down on the
list of what they think they are selling. Way down there. Way, way, way
down there....

After saying that I will also say that manufacturers are not the evil
empire. We are all in this boat together but we need always to keep in
mind that manufacturers sell fashion. Paperhangers install a product and
a fair percentage of it is worse quality than it needs to be.

A number of years back Johnny was invited to speak to some sort of
national boohaha the manufacturers were putting on for store owners and
interior designers. They wanted him to give installation tips or some
other such thing. One of the things he said during his speech was that
if he were a store owner and he had bad results with a particular
wallcovering he would throw the book in the trash...and not sell anymore
of the stuff. Talk about the poopoo hitting the fan! Needless to say he
wasn't invited back again...but we still get people who were at that
speech telling us how great they thought it was.

One of my dreams of heaven would be if all store owners would do exactly
that....throw the junk in the trash. If they made a habit of doing that
sooner or later some manufacturer somewhere would produce those pretty
flowers on a good substrate EVERYTIME. Believe it or not it is possible
to do this.

The reason why more wallcoverings aren't bought today is because they
have a reputation of being a royal pain in the bootie to deal with.
Before, during and after installation. This harsh feeling about
wallcovering on the part of the public isn't the installers fault. The
indifference of most manufacturers about quality and the years of
indifference toward the storeowner has caused wallcovering sales to go
down year after year.

The paperhangers have an organization which can speak out for them. But
right now for some weird reason it doesn't choose to do so or *allow*
it's members to. Goodness...what would happen if each installer could
call the stuff that is garbage...garbage? What would the manufacturers
do to the guild? Boycott all installers? They can't hurt us and they
can't hurt the paperhangers organization. Most already do their worst to
us... So what is the point in not being critical of their products when
it is needed?

Imagine what it would be like if you bought an car because you liked the
way it looked but the first time you put it on the road the engine blew
up. All manufacturers need to be as concerned about quality as they are
about fashion. Until they are they take money out of the paperhangers
pocket. So let the members step on their toes whenever they think it is
called for. And let them step HARD.

One last thought and then I'll quit. I like Zinsser products. I think
they make good stuff. Well...they sure make a lot more good stuff then
they do bad. I really like Bob Senior and most of the other guys that
work for that company and run it. But Zinsser has absolutely no business
sponsoring the guild web site. There are other companies who make
products that are as good. Sponsoring a web site sounds too much like an
unqualified endorsement. It isn't that expensive to get a web site up and
running...I know we did it on peanuts. Surely the guild has enough
dollars to pay the under $50.00 a month it takes to put a site on the
web. If the guild takes the $$ from zinsser to put in the web
site...can a member say in some sort of forum on the guild page...that
there isn't any such thing as a UNIVERSAL primer? Because every
paperhanger knows there won't be until someone comes up with a UNIVERSAL
wall....despite Zinsser's (rather silly) marketing efforts to contrary.

okay....now I'll quit....




gail cox

Please visit our site at
http://www.paperhanging.com

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Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 01:03:41 -0400 (EDT)
From: DGreene431@aol.com
Subject: Re: PHLIST: Rock the Vote YES!!!!!

:::::Smiling::::: You all have said everything so well.. From A to Z

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Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 03:18:24 -0400 (EDT)
From: WALLDUDE@aol.com
Subject: Re: PHLIST: Rock the Vote YES!!!!!

Yeah ! ........................................... what she said !

Phew.....she sure knows a lot of words.

Sign these posts !!!


Michael Keith
Walldude@aol.com

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Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 03:43:45 -0400 (EDT)
From: WALLDUDE@aol.com
Subject: PHLIST: pirates

>From the HouseNet BBS, a response to a question about 800 wallpaper
suppliers.


The mail order wallcovering houses are pirates that rely on your using a
local retailers books and then selling to you on the cheap because they don't
have near the overhead. They are the spawn of satan.
Soon the retailers will go out of business and then whose sample books will
you use?

Michael Keith
Walldude@aol.com

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End of paperhanging-digest V1 #2
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