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paperhanging-digest Sunday, October 26 1997 Volume 01 : Number 035

In this issue:

PHLIST: Clyde couldn't post this so I did [gail cox <wallpro@paperhanging]
Re: PHLIST: Potpourri [jparodi@warwick.net]
Re: PHLIST: Potpourri [Gtm@aol.com]
Re: PHLIST: Handouts [Jtomatoes@aol.com]
PHLIST: Tarkett liner [WALLDUDE@aol.com]
PHLIST: Chair-rail height????? [WallsbyKC@aol.com]

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Date: Sat, 25 Oct 97 09:09:01 -0400
From: gail cox <wallpro@paperhanging.com>
Subject: PHLIST: Clyde couldn't post this so I did

- ---------------- Begin Forwarded Message ----------------
Date: 10/24 4:25 PM
Received: 10/25 12:08 AM
From: morron@ns.vvm.com
To: gail cox, wallpro@paperhanging.com

I think the problem may be only in replying to Philip Lafleur's
message. I sent a reply to a different message and got a copy of it.
I tried sending the message below 5X, haven't got a copy yet. Could
you post it for me?

From: Self <morron>
To: PHIL8248@aol.com
Subject: Re: Re: PHLIST: Builders and Paperhangers
Date sent: Fri, 24 Oct 1997 19:44:17

>>Her answer translates to, "I'm not willing to do without the hundred
>> bucks in the short haul to make my reputation better in the long
>>haul. Let's kill the goose that lays them golden eggs so we can
>>have 'em all right now!"
>>Wouldn't want to risk being late on that Lexus payment.
>Builders who try to build quality homes go broke. That is why they
>cut corners, period. She's right; people want a bargain, in any
>price bracket.

On the other hand, this is a woman who brings me homemade cookies and
asks for my oldest daughter when she needs a babysitter... she's as
sweet as the day is long. It's difficult to tell someone like that to
stick it. The jobs are *fairly* profitable... just not *as*
profitable as most. I'll probably go on doing them as long as they're
still in business... and I'll complain about it the whole while ;-)

BTW, they *did* go broke once before... when they built in Houston.


- ----------------- End Forwarded Message -----------------

gail cox

Please visit our site at


Date: Sat, 25 Oct 1997 09:26:08 -0700
From: jparodi@warwick.net
Subject: Re: PHLIST: Potpourri

Is it a good thing to get involved with the client's selection of
wallpaper? After years of being at the mercy of coneheaded retail help
who advise my customer in the store, "It's all the same" or "We've never
had a problem with it", I decided to take more positive action. The
following is a hand-out I give when I'm doing the estimate and no
wallcovering has been selected yet. This at least helps the customer get
up to speed on what they will likely encounter in the sea sample books.
If you like it, please feel free to use it:

Types of Wallcoverings

Almost all wallcoverings that are used in homes today fall into three
categories and any or all may be pre-pasted
_ Fabric-backed vinyl
_ Paper-backed vinyl
_ Vinyl-coated paper
If we were back in school, we would have to give Fabric-backed
wallcoverings an A+ for durability, scrubbability, hiding surface
imperfections, and generally not being associated with the problems that
other types of materials can have. The walls in kitchens, baths, and
hallways take the most beating in a homeófood and grease, steam from
showers, and banging from suitcases, vacuum cleaners, and moving
furniture up and down stairs can quickly take their toll if the material
chosen is not up to rugged standards. Choosing a fabric-backed vinyl is
your best assurance that the installation will look great in 10 to 15
years in areas that get wear and tear. When the time comes to remove the
paper, Fabric-backed vinyl is the easiest to remove from a properly
primed wall. Walls in older homes can have many problems that range from
cracks and leaky areas to general funkiness. Fabric-backed does the
best job of handling these problems because it is flexible, it holds
back a reasonable amount of moisture without staining, and it takes
little effort to remove one strip for a quick repair. If Fabric- backed
vinyl is so wonderful how come it isnít used all the time? Itís because
itís harder to get delicate prints in the material, although
manufacturers are getting better all the time at making really
fashionable looks in fabric backed.
Paper-backed vinyl is suitable for most areas in the home. It is truly
scrubbable and will handle general wear and tear in the same manner as
fabric backed vinyl. The only area that may be questionable is in a
frequently used shower area without an exhaust fan. Seams may have a
tendency to appear in a year or two in this kind of bathroom because the
paper backing wicks up water at the seam which can degrade the paste
bond to the wall or in some cases the paper and vinyl sheet can separate
from each other in a process known as delamination. Paper-backed
wallcoverings are always more difficult to remove. The vinyl sheet part
is pulled off and the paper backing that is exposed in this process must
be wet and scraped.
Vinyl-coated paper is exactly thatóa printed paper that is coated in
some way with vinyl. Manufacturers tend to print intricate multi- hued
florals and deep colored backgrounds in the type of paper. This type
differs in construction from the other two types in that there is no
sheet of vinyl laminated to some sort of backing. Without a backing a
wallcovering doesnít do as good a job of covering up the wallís inherent
surface imperfections. It helps to line the walls with blank paper
lining to correct this problem. This is also the type of paper that gave
ìpre-pastedsî a bad name because it can shrink when it dries and pop
open seams if the underlying painted surface lacks integrity. Lining the
walls can also help in that situation too. Unfortunately, all this
lining of walls can bump up the material and labor charges
substantially. In darker patterns, forest green or cranberry for
example, the vinyl coated type often has an annoying tendency to burnish
or become shiny in spots where you wipe with a damp rag or where kids
love to drag their hands every time they go up and down a stairway.
Sometimes we absolutely must have the pattern we love, so letís say that
guest rooms and adult bedrooms are the likeliest candidates for this
type of material. Do yourself a favor and donít even consider this type
for a bathroom that is used more than ten times a year,particularly if
the paper abuts a vanity or pedestal sink.
Shopping for wallpaper or wallcoverings---for our purposes the terms are
interchangeable---can be work. The books are not arranged by material
type and you may have to be a sleuth to find out what you actually are
buying. Ignore all labels on rolls that say ìScrubbableî or ì Strippableî
since they can be cruel jokes designed to dupe the unsuspecting .
Fabric-backed books are usually labeled as such and are easier to find.
The fabric backing is either woven or non-woven. The woven type backing
looks like cheesecloth and is found on neutral textures like Boltatex.
This backing can be very helpful when trying to cover walls that are
medium rough. The non-woven backing is smooth so that more intricate
prints can be manufactured without the waffle effect a cheescloth
backing can impart to the print side. Sanitas brand is achieving a high
quality, high fashion look with this material. Paper-backed books are a
little harder to recognize. They may say ìsolid vinylî or ìsolid sheet
vinylî. The vinyl coated type usually just says ìvinyl wallcoveringî.
Sometimes they donít say anything and you must rely on the abilities of
the salesperson to steer you straight. If you donít have a readily
available knowledgeable salesperson at hand and you want to know if this
is some sort of sheet vinyl (fabric or paper backed) that sits in front
of you, perform this simple test. Place a medium damp sponge on the
pattern side and let it sit there for 15-30 minutes. Then turn the paper
over and look at the back side. If there is any indication of warping or
dampness this is not a sheet vinyl and I would not recommend it for a
bath or kitchen that is used by real people.


Date: Sat, 25 Oct 1997 10:19:08 -0400 (EDT)
From: Gtm@aol.com
Subject: Re: PHLIST: Potpourri

James, BRAVO! I do the same except verbally when I go to the prospective
customer's home. People are steered towards color and "pretty" instead of
functional. Being this honest however, has cost me some business because the
"designer" gets mad that I told the customer the truth about the $ 100.00 per
S/R that the designer wanted to put in the kitchen, especially right in front
of the cook top.
In the end the customers make the decision and they cannot say "I wish you
had told me" when the expensive Schumacher or any other brand prepasted vinyl
coated gets those beautiful grease spots from frying chicken and I get called
to replace the paper.
Gerard Jansen
Atlanta NGPP Chapter


Date: Sat, 25 Oct 1997 14:24:42 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jtomatoes@aol.com
Subject: Re: PHLIST: Handouts

Cool, thanks for the sample Jim. I've been working a similar Paperhanger's
Consumer Guide handout for the same purpose and may incorporate some of
your stuff. When I get it finished I will pass it on. When I used to train
in the 9-1-1 center, the handouts seemed to be the most helpful tools we had
(except telephone lines and radio frequencies) for those so intimidated by
the enormity of the dispatch center; and like paperhanging, no two days are
the same either. I like paperhanging much better though...less chance anyone
will die. :)

have a great day

Janice McLaughlin
Roanoke, VA


Date: Sat, 25 Oct 1997 16:30:45 -0400 (EDT)
From: WALLDUDE@aol.com
Subject: PHLIST: Tarkett liner

Jim............ I spoke about Tarkett liner in a prior post. It is made by
Terkett, sold by Imperial and is the greatest thing since bread pudding. Just
ask Gerard........ It will change your life and give you a rosy outlook on
problem walls. It is pre sized, in case you're impressed by such things, a
dream to hang, and will result in a great hanging surface for you and your
friends. I just paid $57 for a 12 roll case including $20 shipping (its
Shipped from Jersey, it'll be cheaper for you. Get some !

Michael Keith


Date: Sat, 25 Oct 1997 17:26:15 -0400 (EDT)
From: WallsbyKC@aol.com
Subject: PHLIST: Chair-rail height?????

To my fellow paperhangers:

I had a problem this week with a decorator and customer. I would appreciate
any feedback from anyone. I would like to know if I handled things

Back in July I went to a customers home (I've done other rooms for them
before and they were very pleased. They have been through two other
paperhangers in the past.) Usually I do not work with the decorator, if
anything they will just recommend me. In this case, these people where
working with this women (decorator) who originally referred me to them a
couple of years ago. In any event, I go there in July to measure up and
give them my price. We where in the master bedroom (Homeowner, decorator and
me) They asked my opinion as to how high does the chair-rail go? (border was
the chair rail). I told them usually it is about 36 inches high give or take
a few inches. The decorator tells me that the lower half of the walls are
going to be painted a navy blue. The wall paper on top is a Waverly floral
print with a white background (a very thin paper). I made it very clear to
all the people in the room that the painter should ONLY go up a maximun of
two inches past the 36 inch mark because it may show through the wallpaper.
I also told them that his straight line would be my guide as to how high the
border will be. So please make sure he has the correct height.

Well, four months have past, no one (not the homeowner or the decorator)
bothers to call me to tell me that the painter painted up to 54 inches. So I
show up on the job, I have know way of contacting the home owner, the
decorator is not returning my call. So, I decide that to hanging this job
and not screw up my schedule...I would bring the border up 3 and 3/4 inches
(Within my "Give or take height). The job looks great. The next day I
return, there is no note from the homeowner, nothing. Later in the day I
call my office to retrieve my messages and there is one from the decorator
telling me that there is a problem with the height of the border, that
homeowners are unhappy with the height but love the job. She also tells me
that I need to fix it. I left several messages with her to call me but she
did not. I called the homeowner and told her the only way to "fix it" would
be to strip and rehang. The next day the decorator tells me that "We are in
this together" (painter, her and I) So we have to work together to fix it.
I told her that I was not going to spend any time to "fix it" because 1. I
had no choice because of show-through 2. It was within my guide lines and 3.
I told them all up front that the painters straight edge would be my guide.

The decorator was furious. Told me she would have to eat the job...she'll
pay to have it stripped, she'll by the paper and she'll pay to have it
rehung. I told her "Do what you gotta do, just don't ask me to do it or any
other job you have.

The next day when I went back to the house I found a note from the homeowner
telling me what a great job I did, thank you. While I was working on the
final room I did some long thinking and decided to call the owner and offer
them this "I spoke to the decorator and she feels that "We are in this
together" so I'll deduct 1/3 of my labor of the one room and 1/3 off the
cost of the new paper. She was thrilled, thanked me numerous times. I
thought this was the way to go because never have I ever walked off of a job
knowing my customers were unhappy in anyway. Did I do the right thing? Oh
one more thing...this decorator doesn't have a very good track record.



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