paperhanging-digest Thursday, September 25 1997 Volume 01 : Number 004
In this issue:
Re: PHLIST: To CP or not CP [Gtm@aol.com]
PHLIST: info to help you paperhng web sites [gail cox <wallpro@paperhangi]
PHLIST: Will you stop whining? [jparodi@warwick.net]
Re: PHLIST: Will you stop whining? [Gtm@aol.com]
PHLIST: Filthy Lucre [jparodi@warwick.net]
PHLIST: david veith [gail cox <wallpro@paperhanging.com>]
PHLIST: CP Program [morron@ns.vvm.com]
PHLIST: now really...humph... [gail cox <wallpro@paperhanging.com>]
Re: PHLIST: Re: Zinsser [gail cox <wallpro@paperhanging.com>]
PHLIST: re: clyde morran's post [gail cox <wallpro@paperhanging.com>]
[none] [gail cox <wallpro@paperhanging.com>]
PHLIST: elements of style [WALLDUDE@aol.com]
PHLIST: the coast is clearI [WALLDUDE@aol.com]
----------------------------------------------------------------- -----
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 07:13:56 -0400 (EDT)
From: Gtm@aol.com
Subject: Re: PHLIST: To CP or not CP
DUDE, you were part of the last board....I don't know about the 8 previous
years since my Guild membership goes back only 2 years. I know you and I have
shared some discontent during the last 2 year period. Since you have the
experience and length of membership, will you please expound on all that you
thought was wrong with the previous administrations ? I think once we get it
out in the open for everybody to see then we can get back into changing from
within.
I am done with the complaint dept until it is obvious to me that the new
board is fouling up.
Gerard Jansen
Gtm@aol.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 97 12:41:22 -0400
From: gail cox <wallpro@paperhanging.com>
Subject: PHLIST: info to help you paperhng web sites
David was asking in the NGPP chat room about why the NGPP couldn't have a
bulletin board on their site. Someone had told him it was tooooo
expensive. It turns out (from what I have been able to gather) that is
not true...well it might be true...let me explain...
I am investigating now because I am going to change my provider....I lost
all confidence in them with the way they trashed our paperhanging mail
list. So I would thought that I would share the info I am gathering for
those of you that might want to consider having your own business web
page.
I thought when I started that I needed to have my dial up account and my
page account at the same place. That is wrong. Your dial up account can
be in one place and your web page account can be in an entirely different
place --- in fact --- in an entirely different COUNTRY! But let's get
back to the beginning stuff...
DOMAIN NAMES
We have the registered domain name "PAPERHANGING.com" the NGPP has
the
registered domain name "NGPP.org."
Domain names make it easier for your customers to find you on the web.
If you don't have a domain name registered then the customer will have to
look for you under the name of your provider. It is confusing and
sometimes those names get very long...customers will never remember all
that stuff.
So let's say you decide to get an easy-to-remember domain name. It is a
good idea to do this immediately. More and more people are getting on
the web every day. They are currently registering 12,000 domain names
every single day! So the longer you wait the less chance you will have
of being able to get the name you want. Eventually the web will be like
tv everyone will be using it so jumping on now puts you ahead of the pack!
If your business is named: Johns Paperhanging and you are in New York.
You can look for the domain names: (You can not use blank spaces in
domain names you must use a dash if you want a space..)
johnspaperhanging
johns-paperhanging
nypaperhanging
ny-paperhanging
Let's say you ny-paperhanging was available. The address of your web
page on the internet would then be:
www.ny-paperhanging.com
Easy for your customers to remember and be able to find you.
So....The first thing you check is if the domain name you want is being
used. There are hundreds of places for you to do this. This is one:
http://web.mindspring.com/whois.html
This can be a fun exercise. Good for hours and hours of trying to figure
out what is the best and easiest name to remember! Go ahead and try it
and see if your business name is registered anyplace yet....
SECOND STEP
The next step is registering your domain name. That means you have to
have a provider that will take care of your business page for you.
The one provider you absolutely don't want is AOL. Not only because they
have well documented problems handling the customer load they have but
also because they are just about the most expensive place in the world to
have a small business web page.
You need to understand that having a domain named web page is entirely
different from having a home page under a provider's (such as AOL) name.
AOL provides everyone with a little web space for a page. But those
addresses are IMPOSSIBLE to remember. (Particularly aol's...) We are
trying to make it easier for your customers to find you in the
future...so back to the nitty-gritty...
InterNIC is currently the ruling agency that is in charge of assigning
domain names. It cost $100 to register your domain name with them. That
is what THEY charge...the set up fee (if any) for the provider will be in
addition. This $100 fee is good for two years. After that you will be
billed $50.00 each year for your name. Very reasonable. The name then
belongs to you FOREVER unless you decide to let it go.
Now we are into the difficult part. Trying to find a provider to give us
web page room. You can do what I did (and what the NGPP did) and just go
to a commercial dial-up service and get your dialup account and your web
page account all in one bundle. That is a reasonable way to go. Usually
unlimited dial up service with a business web page with a registered
domain name is about $50.00-$70.00 a month. That means that your web
page is costing $30-$50.00 a month. (Almost all unlimited dial up's are
right around $20.00 a month for the dial up service so that cost must be
subtracted.)
Reasonable....I thought so until I started investigating this week.
It turns out there are literally dozens (probably hundreds) of companies
that do nothing but house web pages. There is absolutely no reason to
have your dial up and your web page in the same place. After all to
change your web pages you have to FTP anyway and you can do that from any
dial up. Well...you can do it from any normal dial up...I am not certain
about doing it from AOL.
I have found dozens of web page providers that keep web pages with domain
names that cost from $15.00-$25.00 a month depending on what kind of
service you want.
You would probably not need huge services in order to keep your local web
page active and easy to find and fun for your customer's to use. So the
lower end of that price range would be just fine. My page the way it is
now could find dozens of homes for under $20.00 a month. So could the
NGPP page.
This is getting back to David's orginial question about bulletin board
space on the NGPP web page. Bulletin boards are usually run by CGI
scripts contained in your web page space. Several of the providers I
looked at contained predone CGI scripts for bulletin boards at no
additional cost whatsoever.
Actually I took a peek at the people that house the NGPP page and they
have CGI scripts available and I think they only charge $5.00 a month
extra for the space to house them. But I don't know if they have any
predone bulletin board scripts and that set up could be expensive...if
you got a programmer to do it. I do know that predone cgi scripts are
available all over the web but I am not educated enough it that to offer
an opinion. At least not YET. I intend to get educated.
As an alternative to actually putting your web page someplace you can
GARAGE a web page domain name for about $10.00 a month or less. That
simply means that a provider will hold the name for you until you get
ready to use it. So you can go ahead and RESERVE that name now and hold
it for when you are ready to really climb aboard. All for the price of a
meal at Mcdonalds each month.
So that is a little of what I am discovering in my quest for a new place
to put my web page. If I can answer any questions or research anything
for any of you just let me know. I am anything but a computer whiz but I
am a durn good researcher.
gail cox
Please visit our site at
http://www.paperhanging.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 15:44:10 -0700
From: jparodi@warwick.net
Subject: PHLIST: Will you stop whining?
Sorry about all the <whining> concerning the Guild. You must remember
though that due to the Stalin-like censorship of preceding years that
put the jackboot to dissenting opinions among its own members, it is
inevitable that this kind of chatter will flower now that we have been
unchained by Gailís list--a kind of Radio Free Europe for the
downtrodden paperhanging masses.
As far as criticizing from within or without an organization, let those
who have something to say come forward. Do I have to be a Democrat to
criticize the mendacious embarrassment now presiding in Washington?
If there were another national organization devoted strictly to
paperhangers donít you think I would have high tailed it over to
them--hmm?.:-) Unfortunately, the Guild is what weíve got. If anyone
wants to talk about starting a new organization from the ground up my
address is jparodi@warwick.net. As the lid comes off and the wall of
silence tumbles down I hope to do some more whining about important
issues that have been glossed over for years by our leadership and only
now can be heard in this limited forum. I say limited because this
tempest in a teapot is reaching less than 1 percent of our membership.
Future lamentations will include whines about:
1) Corruption (If this is too strong a word what would you call
it?)--Why do we accept $2500/year for our disability fund from Zinsser?
(and then endorse Zinsser by name on our Lincrusta/Anaglypta hanging
instructions when we donít endorse anything else by brandname)
2)More Corruption--Why does Zinsser sponsor our web site?
3) During Tech tours why are questions and comments by members
pre-screened. Is someone afraid that something of substance may actually
be uttered?
4)When is our slate of national candidates going to become less
Orwellian and include a loyal opposition? If our organization isnít
going to be democratic then stop sending silly-ass one party ballots out
every year--send them to some Peopleís Republic somewhere.
5) When are we going to learn about Self-Interest. It is not a sin to be
motivated by self-interest(even though many people confuse it with
greed). The interests of the Guild overlap with, but arenít the same
as
those of manufacturers and paste suppliers.
I know I have more to snivel about but this is all I can think of for
now.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 20:54:27 -0400 (EDT)
From: Gtm@aol.com
Subject: Re: PHLIST: Will you stop whining?
Mr Parodi, you have made some serious charges...being a 2 year member I
cannot answer your questions, but if you know names and places then you need
to start giving us facts and names of the corrupt people. Obviously there are
other members in this list that may know or may corroborate your charges,
since their membership may span a longer period of time than mine.Did you
ever go in front of the board and ask these questions??
I never said you did not have the right to express yourself, however if you
make accusations then you should give us the details. I do not condone
corruption and I will be the first to be on your side IF you can prove what
you said.
In closing I must tell you that I also have the right to get fed up with the
whole thing until I hear something of substance to corroborate your charges.
I defend NOBODY that is corrupt but I believe the members of this
organization have given me a sense of pride and brotherhood in this
occupation of ours and I don't want anybody to get soiled by association
either.
BTW I agree with you about the corrupt leadership in Washington.
Gerard Jansen
Gtm@aol.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 22:38:56 -0700
From: jparodi@warwick.net
Subject: PHLIST: Filthy Lucre
Websterís Dictionary 1993
cor rup tion--a) Impairment of integrity, virtue, or moral principle.
b) decay, decomposition, c)inducement to wrong by improper or unlawful
means (as bribery)
In 1991 a letter of mine which appeared in the Installer which suggested
that a very worthwhile endeavor for our organization would be to test
products which our members use every day. This would be a Consumer
Reports type of test which would compare attributes that are important
to the professional. It would also mean that we would not be at the
mercy of various sales reps who hawk their wares and give us little more
than an informercial. The general consensus at that time was that the
Guild was impartial to all brand names and didnít want to cause bad
feelings with companies which didnít make the cut so to speak. I didnít
agree (and still donít) but I accepted this posture as official Guild
policy.
Also around that time Zinnser, Inc approached us as an organization and
offered to donate $2500 per year to a fund for disabled paperhangers
within the Guild. You wonít recall my letter questioning this decision
since it was filed away and never saw the light of day. The basic thrust
of that note was that this fund ( although very generous) could only be
a source of conflict of interest, if the Guild ever changed its mind
about product endorsements. Even if there were no strings attached, the
<innocent>acceptance of money usually raises eyebrows where virtue and
integrity are concerned. Obviously, you wouldnít trust (I hope) a
laundry detergent test by Consumerís Reports if you knew that they
received money from Procter & Gamble. If Consumerís Report did, in
fact,
do this, I think we could safely say that this would impair their
integrity.
In the Fall of 1995 the Guild published an installerís guide to hanging
Lincrusta/Anaglypta. In it, in print, it recommends Zinsserís Shieldz
or
Z-54 by name. I ask-- Based on what comparative data can we recommend
these products over any other? Why would we do such a thing without
TESTING?
Mr Jansen , I am not accusing any member of accepting bribery. I am
accusing our ENTIRE ORGANIZATION of being corrupted by the sight of
corporate money. Donít you think that our collective integrity is
impaired and our virtue tarnished in this embarrassing conflict of
interest? I wrote a few days ago that I liked Muralo 8900 and I would
heartily recommend it to you to try. I know you donít know me
personally, but you, as a rational person,may want to try it based on my
recommendation as a fellow paperhanger. How would you feel about that
recommendation if you opened up The Wallpaper and saw my picture at a
Muralo junket at Orlando? Is this stuff complicated?
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 97 00:42:53 -0400
From: gail cox <wallpro@paperhanging.com>
Subject: PHLIST: david veith
I would like to say congrats to David Veith's whose letter about the FSC
vs. Pirates made the wallpaper.
Why not fill the list in on what you found out David?
gail cox
Please visit our site at
http://www.paperhanging.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 23:19:59 +0000
From: morron@ns.vvm.com
Subject: PHLIST: CP Program
I am a C.P. I originally tested for Certification out of a desire to
know how proficient at paperhanging I am. Since I come from a
somewhat isolated area of the United States, central Texas, I knew how
I stacked up against the paperhangers in my area... but I didn't have
any idea how I would compare in skills to the hangers in, say, Philly
or L.A. So I took the test... and passed. Frankly, I *still* don't
know how I compare to other paperhangers. Frankly, what does it
really matter? I have since discovered the main purpose of the
designation... to increase the standard of living for my family and
myself. What I have found is that the C.P. designation is an
*excellent* marketing tool. After gaining the designation, my
proposal acceptance rate soared. So I started raising my prices. I
now make *substantially* more than what I made before certifying a
year and a half ago, with the same amount of work. If this isn't a
big program benefit, then tell me what is. In many instances, it has
been the designation that caused me to get the job... many of my new
clients have been very clear on that. And then, my quality of
craftsmanship and service makes them lifelong customers.
I realize that, as it exists, the Certification Exam isn't an accurate gauge
of the actual skill level or experience of a paperhanger. There are many
*excellent* paperhangers who are not C.P.s... I know... I was one of
them a year and a half ago! ;-) There are also C.P.s who can't hang
paper worth beans (ask me how I know THAT, too!). But I've come to
find out that the designation *can* give one an edge on his/her
competition. Today's consumer does respect professional affiliations
and certifications of all kinds.
I am on the Certification Committee of the NGPP, which is chaired by
Norman Meunier. The Committee's main agenda is to look into the
various ways the program should be improved and made more meaningful
for all members. I spoke with Norman earlier this evening, and he
encouraged me to post a copy of his last letter to all C.P.s in its
entirety, word-for-word, on this mailing list. Please note, Norman
did not send the letter to C.P.s only because they are 'better' than
anyone else... it's just that C.P.s are the ones who have actually
taken the exam and would know first-hand some of the improvements it
might need. Norman (as you will read below) is encouraging
legitimate, constructive feedback from *all* members, and even
associates and those outside our industry who might have some ideas.
IMHO, even though imperfect, the C.P. Program *is* worthwhile, and it
can be made even better.
Thanks,
Clyde Morron, C.P.
morron@vvm.com
- --------------------------------------------------------------- --
September 8, 1997
Memo #2: All Certified Paperhangers
From: Norman J. Meunier CP, Chair
I sure hope that this memo finds you all as busy as I have been
lately. My schedule has not been this full in years. It is nice, but
on the other hand I am used to having at least a day off every couple
of weeks. Not lately though.
At the convention I asked for a special meeting for all the CP's. If
you were there you remember how good a meeting it was. Unfortunately
time constraints did not really allow enough time to get into the
questions that came up during that meeting. But our friend Marti
Campbell CP tried to get the questions down so we could work with
them.
The following is a quick list of what they were:
Please understand that these are shortened versions. I expect that
many of you will have further input for us to consider.
1. Need to have better references supplied. How to verify the reference is
really good? (I need your opinions on this.) ((Comment has been made
many times: Who in their right mind would ever supply a questionable
reference?))
2. How to implement a hands on part of the requirements?
(I am concerned with the cost of running this part of the
requirements.)
3. We need a way to balance the experience levels.
Some type of different levels of certification (Please be as specific
as possible.)
4. How to make the Re-certification more viable? The
present re-cp is not very good. How to verify that a cp is keeping up
with the changes in the industry.
5. Suggestion that the current two year experience is stupid.
How can a two year hanger know as much as a 30 year hanger?
Comment made that a two year hanger being the same
cp as a 30 year hanger is an insult.
6. Revisions of the exam will have to be made every few years to keep
up with the industry changes.
7. How about making different levels of certification? IE: Master
CP, Vinyl CP, Prepasted CP, Hand trim CP, etc. (your comments on this
are going to be very carefully addressed. Please add to the above as
you see fit.)
8. Re-certification is not an option. Every other
certification program has re-certification connected with the entire
program. So must ours.
9. How about using other publications to study from? Add to the
existing library of knowledge.
10. Comment made: It is difficult to certify because we all have excellent
end results, we have many different ways of achieving the end result.
11. We may have to install a verbal method of testing for CP. Some have extreme
difficulty taking written exam. (please comment)
12. Comment made: have one-day seminars at the convention with speakers, etc.
that would lead to re-cp.
13. Comment made: one reason to keep only one study
source is to assure that there is a common language among us. Uniform
terminology among peers is very important.
Those questions and comments were made at the Las Vegas convention. I
am sure that each of you have opinions about each of them. All I can
ask is that you take the time to communicate your concerns directly to
me. Otherwise I am certain that you may not be satisfied with the
results.
There is a load of work to be done in regards to this entire program.
I sent a memo to the Associate Members asking for input from their
individual companies and have received many responses to date. Some
have been very useful on the whole and others have given one or two
ideas that will be mulled over during the process.
I need these things from you:
Your positive written responses. Any ideas you have should be sent on
to me. Please don't just give us an opinion without some way of
making it useful to the program. Take a moment to put your thoughts
down on paper and then try to come up with a way to incorporate them.
I am sure that some ideas may really need a community effort to work
out the details, but if each of the concerned people make a small
effort it will make the entire job some easier. I realize that each
of us is very busy and really don't have enough time to do the
necessary things to keep our individual lives together, but as a team
we can make the job that much easier.
SUGGESTED committee and sub-committee needs:
Chair Certification Program: Norman J. Meunier CP
Co-Chair:
Revision Committee Chair:
Co-Chair:
Re-Certification Standards Chair:
Co-Chair:
New levels of Certification Chair:
Co-Chair:
Incorporation of new standards
with existing written exam, Chair:
Co-Chair:
Hands on segment, Chair:
Co-Chair
Regional Issues:
As you can see, this is a huge project. Possibly, one of the most
important things that the guild is working on. This is the one thing
the Associate Members are looking at us to see how we work it out. I
hope that you understand that while I have been taking my time getting
this off the ground, I have been doing a lot of studying of different
certification programs that other industries have been using. There
are a lot of requirements that I had no idea existed that we MUST use
to keep our program viable in the world today.
I am really looking forward to hearing from you. Please write your
responses down and get them to me ASAP. Don't think that your idea is
"silly" or has little merit. We need to know what each of us wants
so
that we can make the program work for all of us.
I am aware that in certain areas of the country there is a big
resentment to any kind of Certification. We need to hear from those
folks as well. ALSO, if you individual CP's know of a non cp who has
some input, please ask those folks to put their ideas into the pot. We
NEED TO KNOW all the opinions to make a good thing happen. Also, if
you know of someone outside the industry with good ideas, encourage
them to submit them.
I hope you all understand that without your ideas and opinions the
program may stagnate and stay the way it has been. At the conclusion
of the CP meeting in Las Vegas I was assured by those in attendance
that they would be happy to help out. To all of you who were not
there if you are interested in helping in any way please step forward
and make yourself known. Your involvement is very important. Your
opinions are valuable, no matter how trivial they seem. You can see
what my ideas on sub-committees are. By no means do I expect that my
ideas are the only ideas of merit. Yours are too. Your volunteering
to serve on a sub-committee spot is terribly important. YOUR
OPINIONS, NO MATTER HOW SMALL THEY MAY SEEM, HAVE
IMMENSE VALUE!
I left the meeting in Las Vegas feeling that I had definitely not been
banging my head against a wall. I was very happy to hear almost
everyone who attended say that they would not only help, but that they
know the program is really going to get better. With everyone's help
and support this will not be too terribly time consuming.
In closing I want to thank those who have done the re-cp application.
If you haven't and your current CP is running out or has run out you
have a LIMITED TIME to get it done. We have to stick to the rules.
Please direct your comments to me and rest assured that I will make
them known to everyone who is interested. There are a lot of people
out there who ask!
On behalf of the entire National Guild of Professional Paperhangers I
want to thank you for taking the time to read this and respond. The
committee needs your help. Together we will make this program the
star it should be.
You may contact me directly by mail at:
Norman J Meunier CP
450 Monticello St.
San Francisco, Ca 94127-2861
My Fax line is: 415-587-4349
e-mail at: NMEUNIER@MSN.COM
Hang in there,
Norman
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 97 01:24:11 -0400
From: gail cox <wallpro@paperhanging.com>
Subject: PHLIST: now really...humph...
I said I would stay out the guild discussion but after sleeping on that
decision I decided it was a *bad* move on my part. I have recommended
the guild to literally scores of people over the years and I think if
anyone has the right to ask or comment about policies I just might.
Actually I have the RIGHT to comment on anything I want...something about
those ten little amendments again.
It also kind of took me aback that the person complaining about me
- --Gerald you there????-- and calling the paperhanging list a whine list
because we were discussing the guild policies continued the discussion in
his very next post.
Now really. humph. I just don't get it.
so I'm back in.
Just not right now.
I'm too tired.
but I will be back in
whenever I feel like it.
and so can ANYONE else.
ANYONE.
ANYTIME.
ANY SUBJECT.
Oh gosh there are those capitals again my friend David Veith hates so
much. But they are there for emphasis...so forgive me David.
BTW...since I am back in.....I feel myself getting untired....and to
think Johnny is up there in bed all by his little ole
lonesome...hmmm....shoot this is more fun(?)....sorry Johnny....
I think James post about corruption is a little STRONG. Words like that
tend to raise peoples hackles so they stop looking at all the GREAT, GOOD
and ON TARGET points you made. that is just my opinion...
come to think about it...think I'll go curl around Johnny. Now that I'm
a full fledge member of this list again.
night all.
gail
p.s. Gerald...want to come up and sit on my big porch and rock and
discuss this stuff? somehow things look so much calmer when you are
rockin... we probably agree on more than we disagree on... Johnny will
throw on a steak...anyone else game?
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 97 02:05:21 -0400
From: gail cox <wallpro@paperhanging.com>
Subject: Re: PHLIST: Re: Zinsser
>Details on paper and process, you want. Good point. 2 baths, 2
>different houses. Both pre-pasted paper-backed vinyl, different brands.
>Seams only lifted but pulled Shieldz with them. One of the houses gets
>drained down in the winter, other gets full-time year 'round use. No
>fan in either bathroom. Actually, maybe only 2 times in 14 years isn't
>so bad but it irks me that it happened at all. Hasn't happened at all
>since I went back to primer/undercoater and acrylic prep for this type
>of paper.
primer/undercoater and acrylic prep...I'm confused...what kind?
I am sorry to hear that about shieldz. Anyone else who can report
similar problems?
>
>It is a nice place to live. We can walk on the beach on our lunch
>breaks and fish after work (sometimes during lunch). Most of the time I
>have a wonderful view of the water while hanging paper. Lots of
>lobsters around but they're no bargain unless you set your own traps.
>Then you need a boat...Why don't we trade our eldest children for
>vacations at each others' houses? Why don't we skip trading the kids?
>
>Debby Athearn
>
Why not? Come on down. Since we moved into this big white house with
the big white columns I have been trying to fill up the rooms. Got my
neice to move down from Canada and made her a little apartment but there
are still plenty of spare rooms left. Might as well fill them with
paperhanging friends!
My eldest child is way to big to trade anyhow... also her kids might
object....shoot even my youngest is long since past trading age...so you
are right...we'll skip trading the kids...
So I'll see you when the snow starts to fly?
gail cox
Please visit our site at
http://www.paperhanging.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 97 02:07:34 -0400
From: gail cox <wallpro@paperhanging.com>
Subject: PHLIST: re: clyde morran's post
I think that this last letter from Clyde Morran on certification as a
marketing tool was honest and made more sense than anything else I have
heard so far. I understand certification as a marketing tool. I get it.
I'm all for anything that increases the income of good installers. I am
a marketing freak myself...
But why didn't the regular guild emblem do the same thing? Does the word
CERTIFIED carry that much weight? If so and being a CP is primarly a
marketing tool why not just put that word on the regular guild logo? We
had it on ours that we gave our grads. BTW, we stopped using it so as to
avoid confusion with the guild. But there really isn't anything to stop
*anyone* from using it. The word I mean. I *could* say and (did say for
years....way before the guild did) that all our grads were certified.
Joe blow could start doing wallcovering seminars and give out that
designation to the people that attended his seminars. The NDPA does
that. Shoot I mean the PDRA...
Another point I just thought of... does it increase your income if one of
those installers who wasn't worth a hill of beans gets the CP and lives
in your town? We faced the same problem at school when someone just
barely passed. A few of those diplomas we just hated like the very devil
to give out. We always hoped (not make that PRAYED) they were going to a
town where no other grad or human being would ever live.
Also...
It sounds to me like the guild *is* asking for input...I really like that.
Would there be a problem in letting the membership vote on this issue?
There must be some downside to that if it hasn't been done. What would
that downside be? Don't you think that everyone will feel better about
it if a vote was taken?
input is great but voting is better ;-}
of course if the guild had voting they would also have to have an open
and free press so everyone could hear both sides before the vote....
now I really, really, really like that!!!
gail cox
Please visit our site at
http://www.paperhanging.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 97 02:12:26 -0400
From: gail cox <wallpro@paperhanging.com>
Subject: [none]
One more note and I am off to bed...
Maurice Murray has sold the WALLpaper. This is very sad news.
Maurice is one of the best people I know. And always fair.
He thinks that wallpaper is sinking in sales because they don't sell it
like they sell carpet with the installation attatched to the price.
gail cox
Please visit our site at
http://www.paperhanging.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 02:50:31 -0400 (EDT)
From: WALLDUDE@aol.com
Subject: PHLIST: elements of style
If Pandora hadn't been curious, there would be nothing to write about.
Those broken line lengths? they're caused by hard returns. (hitting the
return key at the line end.
The cure? use hard returns for a new paragraphs, let word-wrap do the rest
Vuja De..........................the feeling that none of this has ever
happened before
Testing the new list for quote tolerance "Quote"
Sigh those posts .......or die...............ok ........ or puke
That whole thing about the moon hitting your eye like a big
pizza pie? .......... Turns out that was some sort of metaphor.
If you post to the list, you do not need to copy others who are also on the
list.
Perhaps I should rephrase that.
Please don't copy me with something you've posted to the list.
It appears in my mailbox twice.
Testing apostrophe tolerance
'''''''''''''''''''''''apostrophe''''''''''''''''''''
Spoke to Mike Kelly tonight. He'll be responding soon.
He was in NewYork and just got back. Hadn't read his e mail yet.
there seems to be the salty taste of controversy on the wind.
It's been looooong time coming
Thank you one and all.
Does anyone ever talk agout wallpaper here?
I am a deeply superficial person.
Michael Keith
Walldude@aol.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 03:07:00 -0400 (EDT)
From: WALLDUDE@aol.com
Subject: PHLIST: the coast is clearI
t appears it is again safe to use Quotes and apostrophes
All is right with the world again
Sign those posts
When cryptography is outlawed, bayl bhgynjf jvyy unir cevinpl.
Michael Keith
Walldude@aol.com
------------------------------
End of paperhanging-digest V1 #4
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